Restrictive 504 Vs. regular 504

[Sunnymom]

Our son is in first grade, to be entering second grade in the fall.  We are just starting the 504 process now.  We have met with the county school nurse who at first tried to tell us that they will put him on a restrictive 504 and then if something happens they will move him to the regular 504 plan.  What?!?!?!  The plan is AVOID anything happening.  We pushed her and she then agreed to start him out with the regular 504.  One of her questions was: when was the last time we used the Epi-pen.  Um, never, thankfully!  But explained to her how careful we are and where he tested with the Immunocap (which she had never heard of). We will find out later what they recommend to put in it.  In the meantime, we are also working on what we want to include. My question is this: what is a restrictive 504?  I've never heard of this.
Thanks!
Sherry

[Macabre]

Wow--I don't know. I mean, the point is that your child is entitled to FAPE in the Least Restrictive Environment. The point of the 504 is to give your child the same access to FAPE as his nondisabled peers have, so putting restrictions on a 504 seems to fly in the face of that.

Hmmm.  I wonder if they meant restrictions on the 504 itself (conditions) or a restrictive accommodations.

It is hard to remember to do this when you are in the throes of a meeting, but this is one of those times when it's perfectly okay to come back and say, "Please explain that to me further."  Because you really do want to know what they mean.

All along, we have said in our yearly 504 meetings that where we can we want to start out looser and tighten things up if we need to--even in high school. This does not mean our 504 was lax at all, but there were areas where I didn't want to lock DS down unless it proved necessary.  For example, contrary to his elementary and middle school accommodations, DS did not start out high school with peanut free classrooms  We wanted to see how things went as he was getting older. I will add that our high school is a food fest.    Last year a kid in a class next to him whipped out a granola bar, and DS reacted. So now we have PF rooms. 

Anyway--it's great that you stuck to your guns and are educating them.

Maybe Ninjaroll, ajasfolks or CMdeux are familiar with the term "restrictive 504" and can provide greater help than I can. 

[ninjaroll]

The district is getting creative, though it may be out of lack of training or ignorance than ill will.

Have they given the student eligibility for 504? They need to adhere to procedure by having a team meet, provide prior written notice, etc. What the nurse may be legitimately asking is does child have a history of anaphylaxis. What many of us do is provide the school with our allergist's medical attestation to the child's qualifying condition and submit that with our written request for 504 eligibility.

I'm a creature of federalism, something most schools detest. Others here will be able to guide you through to the template letter we use with allergists and your procedural safeguards.

ETA: Ask school for a copy of its district handbook on 504 procedure, procedural safeguards and parent/student rights.

[CMdeux]

My first question-- even before reading the first post in this thread-- was "restrictive for WHO?"

The child??

Or the school?  Or parents?

Because of those options, the only one that meets the federal standard is the middle option.  Period.

Now, with that said, parents may choose to assume duties/responsibilities that (strictly speaking) they would not be obligated to (say, providing a child a snack box, or providing wipes or hand soap for a classroom)-- but the school may not REQUIRE that.

Otherwise, it's FAPE, FAPE, FAPE, and LRE, LRE, LRE.  And, um-- "least restrictive" here does not apply to the school.

If I were feeling saucy, I might insist on clarifying that particular point, actually.  "Who does "least restrictive environment" apply to in the law, anyway?  Oh, I know-- I should ask an attorney-- but I'm just a parent.  Someone explain that to me?"

Your instincts are completely spot-on, by the way-- something truly DREADFUL has to happen before most schools will see a need to ADD accommodations to a 504 plan.    Take things away?  NO problem.  Adding, not so much.

[ninjaroll]

LRE is placement. I think the nurse is using it not in terms of LRE because that would indicate more sped/gen ed. I wouldn't concentrate on their usage because no one is making a placement determination but more of 504 eligibility. For instance, I believe the default uncontested placement (from the context of OP's post plus inference) is general education. Reading between the lines the nurse might be using some weird district concocted language to have a bare bones IHP-like 504 for kids with no history of anaphylaxis.

Whatever the case the need to return to procedure is necessary to have the foundation to lay a complaint if the district remains out of compliance.

[daisy madness]

I've never heard of a "restrictive 504."  Did she explain what the 504 Process will be? 

[rebekahc]

There's no such thing as a Restrictive 504 plan.  My guess would be the nurse is trying to placate parents who want a 504 by offering this made-up 'Restrictive 504' which is, in essence, an Individual Health Plan.  IHP's carry no weight legally and are only as effective/enforced as those following them want them to be.

[ninjaroll]

Well, there's solid intelligence that nationally there is a movement towards 'management' of parents advocating for federal protections. That said we can surmise all day long. What it will come down to is (1) getting back to procedure (2) gathering evidence along the way to document as if this will eventually reach a threshold triggering intervention through a complaint for safeguard violation, or subsequent SEA LEA complaint process for substance like no related aids or services in general education setting to access curriculum.

I don't know OP's facts but I would prefer framing this within hypothetical supposition because this conversation has no privilege from discovery.

Hypothetical #1 no history of anaphylaxis shown

District may cite a lack of documenting disability sufficiently to grant eligibility. Although LTFA qualifies the parent would need something that documents it sufficiently to school that child has LTFA. The nurse might be playing doctor (and, badly) by trying to infer whether epinephrine was administered, and when as a diagnostic determining eliciting dose or threshold, severity of past reactions as a reliable predictor of future reactions, and more worrisome -- possibly what symptoms out of the constellation of symptoms mean anaphylactic reaction in this student in order to receive treatment.

Is nurse crossing the line into practicing medicine in a field she has no expert knowledge in on a person who is not her patient?

Hypothetical #2 history of anaphylaxis but not treated with epinephrine or EAP

This would be a tough one to get through to them, but can be overcome with medical attestation and other written authoritative submissions to include as parent provided sources in the 'variety of sources' for them to 'consider', consider unfortunately lacking a concrete definition.


So, push - politely, but firmly. Insist on a copy of the district's handout to parents on the 504 process. If you don't understand something they say SAY SO EXPLICITLY that you don't understand your rights, you don't know how it pertains to 504 procedure and process, and any answer needs to be in writing. But you unfortunately have to reload this one to get it course-corrected. I bet as soon as you ask for anything like a handbook, what your rights are, where this all is in terms of procedure, team meetings, etc., their ears will prick right up.

Remember this, always: If it didn't happen in writing it never happened. This means even if you have to make a note to yourself on your phone to email back to yourself - do so. Create your own paper trail if they refuse.


By the way, I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice. I do have personal opinions as a parent of a child with LTFA and developmental disabilities. I have acted as my childrens' advocate through 504 and the IDEA protections.

[ajasfolks2]

School nurse alone cannot make 504 decisions (eligibility or accommodations) . . . should be team of "knowledgable persons" . . . to include parents. 

Basic outline:  There should be 504 ELIGIBILITY meeting date requested by parents (in writing), meeting date set, parents informed in writing of meeting and invited-- plus told WHO will attend, evidence provided at meeting by parents to support the qualifying condition, and then discussion and decision by the TEAM as to whether or not the child is ELIGIBLE for 504 according to federal law standards.

THEN there would be meeting (may be continuation of the eligibility meeting) to hammer out te 504 Accommodation Plan.

At the school district's website, look for some published info as to Section 504 -- might be buried in their SPED (Special Ed) info where they have IEP info and procedures. 

~ ~ ~
I don't know your nurse or your district but I don't have a good feeling about all of this just yet.

[Macabre]

Wow. My guess is that they'll be a lot more educated by the time you're finished with them.

[ajasfolks2]

With a nurse as you described, it occurs to me to warn you NOT to sign any blanket authorization to allow her or any other school personnel direct access to your physcians!!  This may have been a line item in the form allowing for administering epinephrine -- double check and be sure to read ANYTHING you've signed.

If you did sign to authorize her direct access to docs, you will need to politely rescind just that auth and/or go straight to the doc's office and inform them in writing that the school is NOT to go to them directly but to go THROUGH YOU in writing with all questions of the doctor.  Make sense?

[ajasfolks2]

Excellent suggestion, Mac.  I was thinking same thing too.

[ninjaroll]

  Follow the basic outline they laid out above. I could wax philosophical in excruciating detail differences between IDEA and 504 procedural safeguards under federal regulatory authority and statute, but the net result is early advocacy actions would remain unchanged.

I'd still say ask (in writing) the district for a copy of your rights and safeguards under 504 because that's a clear cut safeguard violation if they do not. Same for PWN, prior written notice for change of placement, decisions, etc. They aren't exciting or address substantive deficits but it's what gives OCR license to investigate and enforce.

Maybe Mac and ajas can help you lock n load Virginia Beach and Union County when the time is ripe.

[Sunnymom]

Thank you so much ladies.  We figured that the "restrictive 504" was pretty much non-existent which is why we pushed for the "regular" 504.  And when asked what the difference was, we feel she did not address the question. Thank you also for the advice on the name, did not think of that but will change it, you never know!! 

We did get approved for the 504 and received the paperwork home that night.  We are NOT signing anything because it is not acceptable to us.  They gave him two accommodations.  Two.  One was verbal notice to the parents a week before any food event. The other is that we will provide a snack for any unscheduled food event. ?  They also marked that we were invited but chose not to attend.  We did, in fact, receive a letter of invitation with a date, but a blank space for the time.  Then when I emailed the 504 coordinator to ask, she said we did not need to attend that it was just fact gathering at this point.  I have kept all emails and copied every piece of paper that has come home.  We will be contacting them again to set up a real meeting, with a date and time. 

Also, they do not have permission to speak with his Dr, no way.  I had to educate her on what the tests performed were, including the ImmunoCap. That is what pushed her to agree to the "regular" 504.

Again - thank you!

[ninjaroll]

I'm going to butt in a little with the caveat that none of us here are experts, although I do have more applicable knowledge of Part B of the IDEA than many. From what you posted as a follow up you may have a principal that is administratively savvy on the difference in safeguards between the civil rights law (504) and special education law (Part B of IDEA) with regard to FAPE.

Be careful about assertions of safeguards that don't actually exist in 504 which in only the most broad interpretation has the same safeguards that are laid out in detail for the IEP process. I'd let it rest for the weekend and in the meantime I'll come back with a list of documents I'd like you to look at. In the above resources forum are webinars on 504, one presentation is from OCR attorneys.

There's a couple of yucky technicalities that don't exist in federal regulatory authority or by statute (unless state statute to my knowledge) that spells out the greater IDEA-like safeguards for 504. Schools are actually not required to have parents as part of the 504 team, nor does the document need to be written. Having said that I'm not sure that would pass muster through most OCR offices even the more indifferent ones. It's a chess game from here out.

Make sure they give you a copy of their district procedure and protection of your rights under 504. Check your state laws as well. If you can dig up something statutory from the state (they accord 504 process the same or similar to IDEA rights for parents) that's the teeth. If not, it can be overcome best with careful application of documentation, supplying resources, letter writing. Glacial pressure.

Be polite, look "reasonable" though we will not be using the term reasonable. Ever.

That letter you received for the meeting -- keep that. Scan it in if you can, make a copy. Put the original in a binder with a post-it that says "original". Write any notes on that post-it but not the original, or write it on the copy.