Food Allergy Support

Discussion Boards => Schools and Food Allergies => Topic started by: Carefulmom on February 10, 2012, 11:44:16 AM

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Title: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 10, 2012, 11:44:16 AM
Has anyone on this board actually sent their child to college with a 504?  Either a new one or a 504 from high school amended to make it relevant to college.  Just looking ahead trying to figure things out.  The time is getting close.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 10, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
I don't have direct FA experience, but I do have experience with classroom-side accommodations under 504, and also with working with campus disability services (which should be your first stop, btw).  Let me know if you have questions that you think I can help with on either front.  Nameless may also have some info for you, as might Sarahfran. 

I can tell you what is "standard" for college students according to the two local institutions we've dealt with.

1. In-class announcement re: food (or specific allergens) which does NOT identify the student by name/face

2. enforcement on the part of the instructor.

3. student can 'teach' instructor on use of autoinjector.

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 10, 2012, 08:36:23 PM
So CM Deux, is this at educational institutions where you taught?  Or are you referring to accomodations for your dd while she took some college classes?  I would just love to see an all encompassing 504 for college the way some on the old board posted their 504 for elementary school.  I am sure that there are things that will need to be added just like for middle school and high school, just not sure what all needs to be in there. Cannot picture every scenario, just like when someone`s child is going to start kindergarten, they might not think of field trips or birthdays.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 10, 2012, 09:36:40 PM
Yes, I have had students with pretty comprehensive 504 plans for medical conditions (but not for FA-- for Type I and for seizure disorders).  They are certainly less comprehensive than high school would be, but that is primarily b/c students are more autonomous in their ability to leave unsafe situations, or to not enter them to begin with.  On the other hand, that may INVITE faculty to continue practices that present a barrier to inclusion, since attendance isn't mandatory in lectures or study sessions, for the most part.  KWIM?  In a college setting a student needs three things:

a) the ability to have the same SAFETY in their learning environment as any non-affected student, and to retain their anonymity about the reason.  No cheetos in the lecture hall if the student is MA with contact sensitivity-- and it's not the student's responsibility to tell others to leave food for other times and places-- it's the faculty member's.  Faculty also must be willing to make modifications to any exercise, demonstration, laboratory experiment, or classroom activity that poses a DIRECT risk to the FA student.  (Most don't, fwiw, but don't be entirely surprised to find food used as a manipulative or as a TRUE part of a laboratory exercise in a collegiate setting.)  Even if the use is legitimate, the FA student cannot be asked to compromise his/her safety in order to fully participate.  That one is quite basic, but it will definitely require cooperation with the instructor in science and art coursework, where materials may be problematic.

b) the ability to LEAVE an unsafe environemnt without repercussions (even during a lab or exam situation) and without having it called out to peers, and finally

c) to be treated without hostility as a result of those requirements.

Additionally, I'd argue that those in dorm situations need others who are epi-trained (RA, probably) and may need instructors to be willing to be trained, too.  This leaves gaps of course, since walking to and from class, etc. are not covered... but those gaps already exist in a high schooler's daily life anyway. 




The place where we were told this was "standard practice" was referring to what THEY do routinely for enrolled college students in their programs-- for DD, given her age, and enrolled in a "supplementary summer youth program" this was seen as a "baseline" to start from, and it was clear that at nine years old, she was hardly to be held responsible for self-administering and calling 911.  This was also an institution that I've worked for, btw...  yes, a public university.
It was quite the smack-down for the program director who had been giving us a ton of grief over Epipen training the course instructors (grad students), I'll say that.

The reason that I mention that is because individual departments and admissions offices may well be CLUELESS about the application of the law to students with LTFA.  But disability services offices most certainly are NOT.


Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: nameless on February 10, 2012, 09:37:16 PM
I found this:  http://disabilityservices.rutgers.edu/plans.html

I've worked with/in the undergrad system for 10 years now - never ever ran into a 504 but did work with the "disability resource center" (various names) at various institutions for students with learning disabilities. When I was in college and as a grad student I went to the DRC for myself to get food free classrooms. That was easy - simple rule the instructor announced and monitored. It was up to me sometimes to report violations or issues if the instructor didn't see. Food is everywhere and students expect to be able to bring it into class, unless the teacher or room has a very specific and monitored food/drink policy.

As for activities --- like using food in chem lab (example: the burning peanut/calorie lab) the DRC will help the faculty identify an adequate alternate activity. There really is no: make it that way for the whole class b/c of xyz.  It's about identifying accommodations and alternate plans for the person needing the accommodation.

So somethings are straight forward (like no food in classroom during that class time) and some aren't. Now - what happens when a diabetic student needs to eat during class time b/c of meds or the schedule? The DRC sorts it out.

Good luck, and the disability resource center/person/office will be your DD's best friend and a lot of things she will need to advocate and ask for herself.

Adrienne
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on February 11, 2012, 07:41:28 AM
One key difference is between K-12 and college is that more than likely the instructors will want clear direction from a comprehensive 504. DH has to keep on top of any directives from the support office for students with disabilities. He follows them to a T whether it means going in on a day off to proctor an exam or softer items like extending a deadline. Furthermore, the class size can be huge and no matter how well an instructor uses "get to know you" exercises for his/her students... there's a lot of them with frequent change from term to term or semester to semester. Highlighting for the instructor is going to be important due to the prof's time restrictions, class size and turnover, and following the system in place.

I knew of one student with LT peanut allergy in Early Childhood education that had to work with kids who sometimes came to class fresh from eating PBJs. Although the preschool was very nut free there were some faculty in separate parts of the building that did not adhere to the 'request' to not bring nuts in to the building. So I can see some areas where it could get difficult even with solid 504 coverage because the area was shared, separate area and the other faculty did not oversee the program the student was in. Lucky for the student that there was about 5 of us with epi experience.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: YouKnowWho on February 11, 2012, 09:24:34 AM
Can 504 coverage also go into the dorm setting?  The need for a single with kitchen facilities or finding roommates that would either understand or share similar allergies?

Our local colleges have been going the way of shared apartments with no choice of roommates as a getting to know you kind of thing.  So you have 3-4 people sharing an apartment, each with their own bedroom, single or shared bath (no more than 2 sharing), shared kitchen and living room facilities (with additional study areas outside of the apartment but within the building).  Not being able to pick roommates or mismatching allergies is concerning to me.  DS1 has airborne allergies to flour in the air.

Ugh, thinking too much and too far ahead. 
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 11, 2012, 10:06:20 AM
Yes, a 504 can be used as a tool for mandating particular residential needs.

What TwinTurbo says is ABSOLUTELY true, however-- no college student should assume that a faculty member knows from having a conversation with the disability office.

They may not-- and certainly not the first week of classes.

Also recognize that in this setting, a "teacher" may only have perfect control over his/her own office, since virtually all other instructional spaces on campus are shared.  Wiping down a seat and desk at the start of an exam may be something that just has to be done by some students. 

Finally, it's extremely challenging to need a modification and not have any idea HOW to do it.  A frank conversation with the student in question is generally the best strategy, because obviously the student with the disability is the one who is the expert on management at this point.  If the professor doesn't OFFER a particular accommodation, it isn't that s/he is unwilling; they may simply not have thought about it.  Do be willing to compromise where you can, however.  The 'reasonable' clause does apply in post-secondary settings, I believe.  So a faculty member writing an alternative assessment  for a single student seventeen times during the term may stretch that...  as might a full redesign of a laboratory exercise.  Simple substitutions and flexibility on everyone's part lead to the  best outcomes. 


Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on February 11, 2012, 12:19:19 PM
Yeah, making it a first stop or near first stop after getting on campus, etc., would be prudent as well as making sure ALL the necessary steps and paperwork are perfectly in order. Although I'm sure offices differ across universities basing it on ours they are all about compliance.

Good in the sense that they know they answer to the laws of the land so they would unflinchingly demand compliance from even the most tenured fossil, bad if you neglected to get the proper documentation at the appropriate times. So in that sense be bureaucratically bulletproof from the start and stay that way. Meaning your kid needs to stay on top of it his or her self and not abuse the system... not that I'm saying about any one child in particular just that I wouldn't expect mercy, only compliance.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 11, 2012, 12:33:37 PM
I am glad to get so many replies.  I thought this thread might not, since most of the kids on this board are younger than mine.  I have talked with a few Disability Services Offices at a few colleges.  The whole idea of food allergies being a disability is foreign to them.  They were very nice and willing to accomodate (we did not talk specifics), but one in particular just saw themselves as being there for kids with learning disabilities.  I really hate being the trailbrazer (again).

I go back and forth about whether to let dd go away to school or not, and would just love to see one 504 for a food allergy kid.  The schools dd is interested in are huge, around 35,000 students.  There is one school very close to us that is small.  Average class size is 19.  However, this school is not all that hard to get into, and dd feels it is not the right fit for her.  They are more of a theater/motion picture/liberal arts school and dd is a math/science person.  However, they already have great food allergy accomodations in place in the dining hall.  All food is posted on a marque with which of the top 8 allergens are in it.  It would be great for dd as far as allergies, but not really the best match academically.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: yellow on February 11, 2012, 01:21:17 PM
Did you speak with food services at the larger school yet? I thought you were planning meals with her anyway for college? If that's the case then would you be able to do so for the larger college as well?
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on February 11, 2012, 01:37:06 PM
I was in a different area of public service many years ago before DH was in education. What I was both trained and learned along the way is it's not up to the individual government worker what civil rights a citizen is entitled to, if it's in the job description, it's part of the system and paperwork is up to specs, I'm a neutral processor and it doesn't matter if the person in question was a dirtbag. "Favor" was a dangerous word. We were compelled to inform that we will look in to it and if it was part of our job description we would do it, we do not do favors. At times that meant the worst dirtballs exercised their civil rights to the max (rudely, too) because they knew the system so well, and others who weren't so bad who did not know system exploits maybe had a harder time but our hands were tied we could not 'help'.

Point? When you get static ask if it is their job description to process a 504 underscoring you have the binding paperwork all in order and up to date.

On school choice I'd pick a school over quality of program and not school size, tier. Some top tier programs run from non-top tier schools. Looking even further ahead a thriving, involved alumni assocation could be important for networking, as are the faculty ties to industry, and how rich the internship choices are for students. Not to harp on adjuncts themselves but it might not be a good choice for a place top heavy on adjuncts, it depends on how they are professionally qualified versus academically qualified. Maybe CM has better advice.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 11, 2012, 01:41:47 PM
It was as a result of speaking with food services at the larger colleges (two of them) that I decided I will need to prepare most of dd`s food.  The food services want to accomodate, but they are clueless about cross contamination.  Some people on this board who are pa will not go to restaurants that serve nut items due to concerns about cross contamination.  For dd to eat three meals a day seven days a week in the dining hall there is an even greater chance with all those meals of a reaction due to cross contamination.  So yes, if she goes to a larger college near home, I would prepare most of her meals.  She will probably still need a 504, though, especially if she lives on campus.

It would be great if she could go away away to school (nowhere near us), but unfortunately it just seems too risky, with the MFA.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 11, 2012, 01:46:07 PM
TT, school size seems like a real issue, because of her MFA.  The small schools would know who she is.  At a school of 35,000, I fear that she would just fall through the cracks.  She could be lying on the sidewalk unconscious and maybe no one would notice.  And the dining hall seems much riskier at a large school, even for an occasional meal.  When they are so high volume, I worry about mistakes more and also higher turnover if they have more employees.

What do you mean by "adjuncts"?
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on February 11, 2012, 02:27:30 PM
CM will probably be a better choice to distinguish the variety of instructors and what that has to do with retaining accreditation, why published research matters, tenure, grants, etc. I'll defer to her as I couldn't do it without wiki.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 11, 2012, 03:18:41 PM
I was in a different area of public service many years ago before DH was in education. What I was both trained and learned along the way is it's not up to the individual government worker what civil rights a citizen is entitled to, if it's in the job description, it's part of the system and paperwork is up to specs, I'm a neutral processor and it doesn't matter if the person in question was a dirtbag. "Favor" was a dangerous word. We were compelled to inform that we will look in to it and if it was part of our job description we would do it, we do not do favors. At times that meant the worst dirtballs exercised their civil rights to the max (rudely, too) because they knew the system so well, and others who weren't so bad who did not know system exploits maybe had a harder time but our hands were tied we could not 'help'.

Point? When you get static ask if it is their job description to process a 504 underscoring you have the binding paperwork all in order and up to date.

On school choice I'd pick a school over quality of program and not school size, tier. Some top tier programs run from non-top tier schools. Looking even further ahead a thriving, involved alumni assocation could be important for networking, as are the faculty ties to industry, and how rich the internship choices are for students. Not to harp on adjuncts themselves but it might not be a good choice for a place top heavy on adjuncts, it depends on how they are professionally qualified versus academically qualified. Maybe CM has better advice.

Not necessarily "better" so much as to note "in addition to" and science/math/engineering specific. 

MANY of the faculty in those disciplines will be dealing with a language barrier in addition to the cognitive one in understand a student's needs when those are "special" or covered under ADA.  This is certainly highly problematic at research institutions, and less so at undergraduate ones.  Be aware that the student often matters as much as the institution's basic research reputation in determining how good an education can be had in a particular subjecct.

Put another way?  I'd look MUCH more closely at where an undergraduate program SENDS ITS GRADS than I would at what publications its faculty generate year to year, or in grant $$, or in terms of other externalities of that nature.  Those things are largely connected to graduate education.  Many students/parents get taken in by that phenomenon as undergrads in the sciences; but the bottom line is that PHENOMENAL grad schools-- legendary ones, even-- do not necessarily have "good" (well, 'better,' perhaps) undergraduate education programs in those same disciplines.  If it's all about the research, then often those colleges/departments don't really see undergrads as anything but a necessary means to the ultimate end.

Personally, most of the successful scientists that I know (and a fair number of the successful medical professionals, too) went to small-to-medium sized public institutions-- frequently those without PhD programs-- for undergraduate studies, and THEN went to big-name schools for graduate work in their interest area.  Honestly?  That's what I'd advise serious and promising students to do.  The reason is that at a PhD granting institution, undergraduates are somewhat less likely to get hands-on experience themselves, and very much more likely to be handled by adjunct, teaching faculty, and GRADUATE student TA's.  That is such a mixed bag that it is a serious source of risk on the LTFA management front, as well.

  Even with the very best of intentions, a 24-26yo graduate student who speaks poor English isn't going to be of a lot of help in maintaining a food-free environment or in recognizing risks/helping to work around them.  First of all, they don't really have a lot of "authority" to, even if they did try. 

I wouldn't necessarily steer by institutional size.  That's not the factor to look at, IMO.  There are tiny graduate programs, and there are enormous undergraduate ones.  It just all depends on what the ultimate mission of the institution/department happens to be.  For undergraduate training, look for one that sees that as a serious goal, rather than the ugly half-sibling of the golden child of the graduate program.   ;)  The factor to examine is how much time real, tenured/tenure-track faculty actually spend in student contact, and how much of that contact is lower-division, undergraduate time.  What percentage of freshman labs are taught by graduate students and even undergraduate teaching assistants? 

Those courses with "TBA" instructors that are a revolving door of graduate students who can't get RA's to support themselves are where there are going to be major implementation inconsistancies and problems.  In my experience, anyway.

A good college education can be had many places.  A good foundation for future study may also be found many places, often those which are not known for that particular field of study.

Now, would I send a student who was interested in molecular biology to Chico State?  Errr... probably not my first choice, no.  But for separate reasons, I'd also steer such a student away from Berkeley or UW for undergraduate studies.  If it's a likely area of interest for graduate studies, and you're looking at a student with the capacity for a likely terminal degree at some point-- then save it for that.  Another reason for doing that has to do with "diversification" of educational experience.  This is something that matters a great deal professionally in science PhD's and MS degrees.  It's the reason why even the top 10 leaders tend NOT to 'keep' their undergrads for grad school.  It's not that they aren't good students... it's that it isn't right for the students themselves, in most cases, to have such an insular educational background.    The exception is in Vet and Pharmacy schools, where many programs prefer the institution's own undergrads in considering applications.

Hopefully that makes sense and is helpful.

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 11, 2012, 03:28:30 PM
TT, school size seems like a real issue, because of her MFA.  The small schools would know who she is.  At a school of 35,000, I fear that she would just fall through the cracks.  She could be lying on the sidewalk unconscious and maybe no one would notice.  And the dining hall seems much riskier at a large school, even for an occasional meal.  When they are so high volume, I worry about mistakes more and also higher turnover if they have more employees.

What do you mean by "adjuncts"?

Adjunct faculty are basically contract employees who are paid by the course to teach undergraduate/orphan courses that none of the tenure-track faculty want to teach, or to teach "surplus" courses that basically exceed the institution's capacity in some way.  Introductory coursework not intended for a department's own majors or remedial courses frequently fall into that category.

As pressures mount on institutions to reduce costs without raising tuition, adjunct teaching becomes more popular, as well.  Paying someone with a PhD and nothing better to do a flat fee of 7-8K (and hey-- NO BENEFITS, since they aren't really your employee and you have no real ties to one another otherwise) to teach your Chem 101 course lectures for the year is MUCH more appealing than paying a new hire 75K+ bennies, and giving them office space, lab space, and turning them loose on your graduate program.  KWIM?


Adjunct = disposable teaching corps.

Professoriat = the heart of the institution's continuity in teaching and mentorship of students.

HTH.  Sorry if that seems cynical, but that is the bottom line.  Adjuncts don't DO a lot of the actitivies that are expected of regular faculty.  They don't have advisees, they don't serve on committees, they don't do university outreach, they don't develop courses, they don't write textbooks, etc. etc.



Re: a school small enough for everyone to "know" your DD? 

Unrealistic, probably.  In all seriousness, with a STEM interest, that is just not feasible in most places.  Even with a college population of 3-6K, it's going to be her sophomore year before anyone truly "knows" who she is well enough to be of real assistance in a situation like that.   :-[  Truly.  My own undergrad institution was of that size.  It wasn't until my sophomore year that I got to know the faculty and staff in my own department well enough that they knew me on sight-- and really, I spent 6-10  hours a day there. Attrition from STEM is very high the first two years.   

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: nameless on February 11, 2012, 03:34:06 PM
ooooohh yes - everything CM just posted above about undergrad programs in the sciences :)  It is extremely rare an undergrad will go to the grad school at their undergrad institution. It's actually "frowned upon" in astronomy and physics --- you go elsewhere to get well rounded and experience different faculty and situations.

Honest truth? Where you go for undergrad sometimes, kinda doesn't matter. It's how you DO at that school. It's how you spend your summers (going for an REU (research experience for undergraduates) in the summers or finding other undergrad summer research...for the sciences.

Also quite truthful --- the professors at small 4-yr (have no graduate programs, or very little) colleges are much much better teachers and mentors. They are there to teach, not to do research.

What science is she interested in, besides math?

That all being said --- I was PA/TNA in college. As a freshman I went to a small local school, but stayed on campus (I became 'independent' by a court document at 18 to get better financial aid). I lived in a freshman dorm and b/c the food service was quite clueless, the housing Director got me a stipulation I didn't have to buy into the food plan. Further, I could have a car on campus b/c I had to go grocery shopping. This was all before 'food allergies' were a hidden disability in the early 90's.  I lived off a dorm size fridge, hot pot, microwave, and a hidden toaster oven (illegal appliance, hidding in my closet or in my car during inspections and used VERY carefully).  Then next year I got in an on-campus apartment with 12 other gals and 1 kitchen. I used my own pots/pans/cooking/eating stuff, kept clean in my room. I used my own dish sponge and towels. My own food, etc. Pain in the @ss? Sure thing, but I really didn't dwell on it.  I'd still make lunch or dinner and go down to the dining hall with others just to be social. It all worked out.

So there are ways to live on-campus. It can depend on the dorms and situations and who can live where. There are ALWAYS exceptions, trust me. I ended up working in residence life in a few schools to help pay for school and learned a lot.  Now - the "freshman experience" of living in a dorm with your peers I think, is a good thing. You are part of a community. Stick a freshman into a senior apartment...ehhhhh...there might be problems.  Some colleges/universities have grad student apartments too, and that might be an option/exception. Get through the first year and then live off-campus and it becomes easier.

FWIW - and I know you were just kidding...but large 40k student population university settings does not mean she'll be ignored or can't find help.  Sometimes there are more services and more people to help at the large schools.

Of all my experiences --- and I enrolled full-time at 4 different colleges/universities and took classes at over a dozen through a 10yr stint to get my undergrad degree. I really really liked the small 4-yr only schools the best. The instruction is different, and that can be very important for sciences or math or engineering. There were no 500 or 2000 person lectures, everything was small and personal and differentiated learning.  I honestly loved the science engineering school the best (WPI in central MA).

Adrienne
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 11, 2012, 03:48:46 PM
Yup.

I graduated in a class of 6 majors.  80% of that department's majors, on average, went on to earn MS and PhD degrees, and two in my class alone at tier 1 institutions, to boot.  I went to what had traditionally been a "teacher's" college.  It had a solid, but not "remarkable" program in Biology, Chemistry, Math, and Physics.  Those were your major choices in the sciences.

I've never regretted that.  Never.  It was inexpensive, it was a small-- intimate, even-- program, and each and every major in the program was given individual attention by all of the faculty in the program.  I got to actually TOUCH and OPERATE instrumentation that, while not "state of the art" was certainly real enough to get the job done, and as a result, my skills in grad school were far superior to many of my peers who'd done undergrad studies at graduate institutions.  THEY had good theoretical knowledge, but little hands-on experience.

The difference meant being able to hit the ground running with a research project, as opposed to needing to get comfortable not having instruments operated by technicians or post-docs.

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: notnutty on February 15, 2012, 07:40:24 AM
What does your DD think? Obviously the decision on where to go will be up to her. Most colleges will not even discuss academics or medical issues with the parent.  :-/
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 15, 2012, 11:40:10 AM
What does your DD think? Obviously the decision on where to go will be up to her. Most colleges will not even discuss academics or medical issues with the parent.  :-/

Well, obviously with the cost of a college education being $150,000 - $200,000 the decision will be a joint decision.  Dd wants to do whatever will give her the best chance of getting accepted to a certain graduate program that she is currently interested in.  They only accept 4 - 6 students per year.  Of course, she could change her mind about what she wants to do, but she wants to keep options open.

Thanks CM Deux and nameless.  Very helpful information.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: notnutty on February 16, 2012, 08:50:22 AM
I didn't mean to offend you.  The point I was trying to make is that you may find this process frustrating because most colleges will not even discuss your dd's accommodations or health status once she is 18, so I think it is important to decide on a school where your dd is going to feel empowered to manage/advocate for her specific needs.

If a school with 50,000 students does not seem overly interested in accommodations, she may not have the time or the means to fight that battle...and you will essentially be "locked out" of the process.

That is the only point I was trying to make...
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 16, 2012, 10:09:33 AM
That's completely true, Notnutty. 

Parental involvement at the collegiate level is mostly seen as "inappropriate" by college administrators, too.  In that particular respect, once our children are 18, as college students, we must become "uninvolved" at least as far as official channels go-- because it may actually do as much harm as good.

  It signals that our children are incapable or over-protected, even if that is untrue.  It may make it harder for our kids to advocate forcefully for themselves if the college doesn't take them seriously, YK?  One of the quickest ways for colleges not to take them seriously is for a mama (or papa) bear to be leading the charge, since it signals that: a) the student probably has a serious lack of maturity relative to the demands of the environment, and b) parents are overprotective pains in the rear end who want the school to take up where they left off.  Whether or not either thing is true, it's obviously NOT a helpful thing for a child with LTFA to get that reputation.

  That's not to say that parents shouldn't be involved in guiding their own kids, mind.  Just that you can't expect the college to act in loco parentis, no matter how willing you and your (technically adult) child both are about that point.

So vetting college campuses with our children?  Great idea.

Helping them strategize?  Also fantastic.

Making those phone calls ourselves or offering to "handle" meetings while they are college students?  Meh..... NO.  Not unless there are serious problems (the kind that would lead the student to disenroll or be permamanently harmed/injured... or the sort that you wonder if you need an attorney for).

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Carefulmom on February 16, 2012, 11:14:57 AM
Oh, she`ll be making the decision about where to go before she`s 18.  We`ll need to know about accomodations before deciding where she is going.  She won`t be 18 yet.  She would be 18 by the time she starts college, but obviously she isn`t going to show up the week before school starts and start asking for accomodations.  We are doing our research now.  She is 16.

Don`t worry, notnutty.  You didn`t offend me.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 16, 2012, 11:29:33 AM
Yes, early research and planning/strategizing is a must.

I'm so glad that you're sharing this process with everyone here, Carefulmom.  It's really important for those with kids in middle school and 9th-10th grade to see the timeline as it unfolds.   :yes:
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: nameless on February 16, 2012, 12:49:05 PM
Though I will note on the parental role in college...

It's true they want the parents not involved, for the student to take responsibility and handle problems.

Yet...the include the parent's income in financial aid. 

It baffled me when I was in school. My mom could contribute ZERO to my education. ZERO. She made little money and my step-father (whose income was included) didn't want to contribute anything, nor saw he had to. He'd only been around a few years. He was a douche anyway for other reasons and she's since divorced...I digress.

I ended up getting legally emancipated from my mother and step-father when I was 17 (I started school when I was 17, turned 18 that first fall semester).  It was the only way for me to get full financial need based aid. I didn't live with them over breaks or summers either (I didn't want to). I found ways to stay on campus and live there and make extra money doing so.

Anyway - I find it all funny.  "No parents"  Oh...except their wallets please, that is expected!

Adrienne
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on February 16, 2012, 01:17:59 PM
:rofl:

Yes.  And the story of "but my parents DON'T support me" was all too common in my generation of students, I'll add. 
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: nameless on February 16, 2012, 01:40:39 PM
:rofl:

Yes.  And the story of "but my parents DON'T support me" was all too common in my generation of students, I'll add.

I remember being in the financial aid office BAWLING b/c the FA officer just couldn't believe my "parents" were not contributing anything. I was already on school health insurance, I lived on-campus even though I was 20 min from home. It took the Director to see me in there a few times crying my eyes out not knowing how I'd pay for the spring semester (fall was paid for by savings SS $ paid to me when my dad died when I was 16) --- the Director finally whispered "look up emancipation" to me one day. 

Ugh. Anyway.

Adrienne
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Macabre on October 17, 2012, 12:58:42 PM
I made the comment in another thread that when my son's high school was not keen to keep the 504 plan (we moved to a new state, and he started high school here), one of the things I said was that we are not interested in changing his eligibility status for several reasons, one of them being that the 504 can travel with him to college.

A discussion ensued (hopefully we can move those helpful posts to this thread).

We have a few other threads that deal with this time of life, such as SATs and food allergies (will link to later), but it would be helpful to have a thread that deals specifically with 504 plans on the college level.

A helpful article on www.wrightslaw.org:

Accommodations for College Students
Dr. Mike Brown, Professor School Psychology, East Carolina University

http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/ltrs/accoms.colleges.drbrown.htm
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Macabre on October 17, 2012, 01:16:20 PM
ADA Q & A: SECTION 504 & POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION
http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/504.asp

Quote
Q. How does the ADA and Section 504 affect admissions requirements?

A. The postsecondary program cannot have eligibility requirements that screen out people with physical or mental disabilities. Application forms cannot ask applicants if they have a history of mental illness or any other disability. Institutions may impose criteria that relate to safety risks but these criteria must be based on actual risk and not on stereotypes or assumptions. It is also illegal for an institution to serve students with disabilities differently because it believes its insurance costs will be increased. (It is illegal for insurance companies to refuse to insure, continue to insure, or limit the amount of insurance solely because individuals with disabilities are to be included in a program unless the practice is based on sound actuarial principles or actual experience.)
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Macabre on January 08, 2013, 05:36:12 PM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/01/08/168872161/college-students-with-food-allergies-make-legal-gains

College Students With Food Allergies Make Legal Gains
A recent settlement between a university and the Justice Department may encourage institutions to better accommodate students with food allergies.

by ELIZA BARCLAY

January 08, 2013 3:17 PM

Many a college student lives off of microwavable meals – but some do it not by choice but because they're worried school food might make them sick.

They may have celiac disease, a digestive ailment caused by gluten, or life-threatening allergies to foods like peanuts — both are on the rise. But even as more people become aware of the issues, schools and institutions may lag behind.

Now some food allergy advocates are celebrating what they see as a shifting legal trend: schools and other institutions required to treat food allergies as a disability. They've found an ally in the Department of Justice.

DOJ's Civil Rights Division announced last month that the Americans With Disabilities Act applies to students at Lesley University in Cambridge, Ma., who claimed that the school's food services and meal plans were inadequate for their needs. It was the first food allergy-related settlement under ADA in higher education, says a DOJ spokeswoman.

In the agreement with DOJ, Lesley is required provide gluten- and allergen-free food options in its dining halls, offer special meal plans for students with allergies, and pay $50,000 in damages to the students who filed the claim in 2009, among other measures.

"The Lesley settlement is terrific," Marilyn Geller, chief operating officer of the Celiac Disease Foundation, tells The Salt. "It puts all universities on notice that they're going to have to make these accommodations for students with celiac, gluten sensitivity and other food allergies."

Food allergies affect about 2 per­cent of adults and 4 to 8 per­cent of kids in the U.S., and the number of young people diagnosed with a food allergy has risen in the last decade, according to the Centers for Dis­ease Control and Prevention.

By applying the ADA to food allergies, the DOJ has essentially turned food into an access issue – akin to providing ramps for students in wheelchairs.

"By not accommodating food allergies, you're barring students from participating in the university," says Maria Acebal, a lawyer and spokeswoman for Food Allergy Research & Education, an advocacy group. "If you can't get safe food, how can you study there?"

It's gotten easier to make the case that food allergy is a disability since Congress broadened the scope of the ADA in 2008 with an amendment. The amendment has led to widespread reforms to accommodate people, especially children, with food allergies.

But Geller says there's still a ways to go, especially for people with celiac disease and gluten sensitivity who have to worry about cross-contamination of their food.

"The problem is that a microscopic amount of gluten for people who are very sensitive can take them down for several days," says Geller. "So we want schools to take it to the next level and make sure that the gluten-free food is prepared and served in dedicated areas so there's no cross contamination."
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: GoingNuts on January 08, 2013, 07:56:08 PM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on January 09, 2013, 06:27:31 AM
I am stoked that DOJ OCR is on an FA issue.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Macabre on January 09, 2013, 07:03:58 AM
Me, too.

I just loved seeing this in print on another website other than ours:


By applying the ADA to food allergies, the DOJ has essentially turned food into an access issue – akin to providing ramps for students in wheelchairs.


SCORE.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on January 09, 2013, 03:25:45 PM
HURRAY!

 :coolbeans:

Quote
"By not accommodating food allergies, you're barring students from participating in the university," says Maria Acebal, a lawyer and spokeswoman for Food Allergy Research & Education, an advocacy group. "If you can't get safe food, how can you study there?"


Er... okay-- YAY, YES, gold star for her on the first half of that sentence.... but... urghhhhhh, ohhhh, how far this falls short in terms of describing the extent of that access problem.    You can't just give FA students a pass on the dining hall portion of campus residency, and figure a microwave in a dorm room solves these problems on a campus.   :-[  Which would, of course, solve the problem that SHE has stated.

But it's SO much larger than that.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on March 03, 2013, 02:15:47 PM
http://yodisabledproud.org/organize/docs/DRC_STUDENT_RIGHTS_HANDBOOK.PDF


This is a GREAT handbook with a lot of good information in it.  :)
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on March 03, 2013, 02:34:52 PM
Much the same:

http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/pubs/530901.html

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Beach Girl on April 01, 2013, 07:16:06 PM
Now that I have received my acceptances, I need to figure out where I am going.  We have started calling around and the school that would probably be my first choice really does not accomodate food allergies very well.  I would have to ask for accomations in order to safely eat there.  I already have a 504.  Has anyone actually kept their 504 for college and what accomodations were in it?  TIA.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: ajasfolks2 on April 01, 2013, 07:51:04 PM
http://home.allergicchild.com/food-allergy-college-504-plans/
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Beach Girl on April 01, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Thank you.  This is very very helpful.  We started by contacting Dining Services.  It sounds like we should have instead contacted Disability Services.  I had hoped that I would not need my 504 in college, but it appears that I will.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on April 02, 2013, 07:25:00 AM
Relevant threads on the topic have already been bumped by others. Adding something recent by DOJ on university meal plans for FA. Two versions for your reading pleasure.

Q&A quick sheet

Settlement Agreement (full)
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: ajasfolks2 on April 02, 2013, 06:25:27 PM
Thanks for getting those links in here, TwinTurbo!  Just hadn't had the chance . . .

Allergic Living / Gina Clowes featured article on the recent college ruling this month is nice too, if you haven't seen!

Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Beach Girl on April 02, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
Thanks.  Those links are interesting, especially the link about the ruling for the gluten free student at Lesley College.  I looked at the other threads linked, but still wonder if anyone on this board actually has a 504 for college or knows anyone with a 504 for college.  If so, what accomodations do you have?  It looks like at my first choice school, we will have to do a lot of educating.  I thought by now there would be enough infomation about food allergies so that the colleges would not have trouble accomodating, but I was wrong.  At one large very well known university, their hamburger buns are on shared equipment with peanuts!  I never could have guessed it.  We got the line about how other peanut allergic students eat those buns, as though that means that I should also.  We have lots of educating to do.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on April 03, 2013, 07:37:48 AM
The ruling was for the complainant with celiac but included life threatening food allergies. I believe nut was mentioned as an example more than once.

Regardless, most noteworthy is that it was DOJ that got involved for two distinctive reasons. DOJ cedes jurisdictional enforcement typically to USDOE when it comes to 504, which is not the same as Title II (or Title III). USDOEOCR enforcement powers are not as strong in the sense they may do more than possibly suspend what is defined as federal financial assistance.

Which may very well mean that for ADA purposes at the university level the law seems to be partitioning food services as Title II or Title III, not necessarily part of an individual's 504 possibly because FAPE is no longer in play.

At the university level you may be prevailing on disability law beyond 504 and OCR's limits to enforce once aged out of FAPE. Therefore, it would be wise to familiarize with Title II & Title III which are not FAPE dependent but mirror access. It would also affect reporting department for violations because you have to place your bets legally: DOJ's Civil Rights Division or DOE Office of Civil Rights? Since you've mentioned limitations due to eating it could help to be aware when the enforcement is outside of lesser from a 504 more from Title II or Title III because greater protections always prevail.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: Macabre on April 03, 2013, 07:58:04 AM
At what point does one age out of FAPE?
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on April 03, 2013, 08:06:46 AM
I want to amend this post to underscore that Settlement Agreement with Lesley University regarding food services should really be read in full. Bullet form is easier to read.




Unless the free education extends past high school graduation or equivalent, there I'm assuming. Not so? Intriguing question on upper limit so I looked it up. Primary and secondary until 21 defaulting to state law limits.

And while I'm on it one thing bugs me about college choice with FA. FAPE, I think, only has to reach de minimis or barely above it to be satisfied. It's free and appropriate and equalized access, not best possible. Unlike college choices where it's not a civil right to attend freely and there is no de minimis standard, quite the opposite because ideally you're shooting for best possible.

So assuming a prospective student is experiencing access issues before even acting on an acceptance letter and has that chance to start the process with the disability office the civil rights violation has already occurred. That's not a denial of FAPE, it's probably not a violation of the high school student's existing 504 at the student's current school even if it contains college prep accommodations, yet it's an undeniable access violation.

Remember the mention of Venn diagram? It's that stinker of an overlap. What is college dining at that point? Who do you ask for the modifications from and when? Before you're a student there? Take a chance accept then deal with violations while you're dealing with classes? What does a college 504 cover with reasonable ability to enforce outside of curriculum modifications?

What does it mean for someone not even close to majority age to appropriately need college level material? Does graduation or its equivalent mean the government has met its obligation? Anyhow, want to circle back to college choice, accommodations including food services. Full disclosure that I obviously am conjecturing but at least at a public university if the food services are tied to the school or operated by the school I think that Title II is your best shot. In the case that the food service is completely outside the operation of the school or is otherwise considered a public accommodation then Title III. Both are DOJ CRD territory and let's face it they have more enforcement should they decide  to get involved... and they did.

Unless you're at a private religious institution, it qualifies as a religious entity AND it runs its own food services then it's completely exempt. If they contract out to a public accommodation to fulfill its food services then you can take it up with that public accommodation.

So, Beach Girl, I think you'll need more than a 504 to tackle food services even if you get a perfect 504. Not only that but depending how hard you want to fight for the best school academically for yourself, pursue food services even before attendance or initiate now even if your existing 504 is at your high school.

IMHO
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: twinturbo on April 10, 2013, 11:52:26 AM
Um, small addition to post. Best starting point is really reading Subpart D (primary and secondary schools) and Subpart E (postsecondary schools) for transitioning from FAPE/ IDEA to university programs.

Will follow up with supporting links but the gist is Subpart E of Section 504 really only administers to program accommodations. OCR recommends the college student make further use of Title II, and I assume Title III as well. It really makes what the DOJ work out with Lesley, and why, that much clearer.

And if a university claims there's no 504 available for college, oh yes there is if they are a recipient. They may have that confused with FAPE or IDEA. Even that has exceptions such as adult education for an older student who may not have finished high school that is still within mandatory ages. Arguably that may not be run through university.

Subpart E -- Postsecondary Education. Note it's a little bare but covers activities as well as programs.
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: CMdeux on April 10, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
At what point does one age out of FAPE?

It's age 21-- OR the completion of a high school diploma/alternative certificate.

Important to note that 504 for K-12 is not the same thing as a 504 plan for post-secondary education.

In the first instance, the standard is about as high as it gets-- that is, "reasonable" need not apply, zero barrier, full inclusion.  You get the picture, right? 

The second becomes more like a hybrid of "places of public accommodation" and "government services."  The standard is that separate can be more or less equal, and that is fine.  Reasonable is also considered, as is fundamental nature of the program/offering. 

IDEA does not apply in a collegiate setting. 
Title: Re: 504 for College / University
Post by: ajasfolks2 on April 10, 2013, 09:47:42 PM
Related article.  Sorry if repeat.

Bama Dining Accommodates Students with Allergies
Feb 11, 2013


http://cw.ua.edu/2013/02/11/bama-dining-accomodates-students-with-allergies/