I'll preface with...this teacher was assigned Team leader of 504 plan since she has Celiac. During the meeting I mentioned several times that managing celiac and managing a peanut allergy is not the same. At one point I objected to her being the leader because they kept introducing her as "the expert" about food allergies.
She told me there was a couple things they would do with simple ingredients such as flour (remember she has celiac and is okay with having flour in her classroom. Why? because celiac and food allergies are not the same.
So, here's her email. I was miffed. Partly because it now means more "work" for me and mostly because she told me beginning of year there was nothing except the flour project and no tasting. And I like how she tells me the cocoa nibs are free of peanuts.
I am willing to help a little to make a project "doable", but in this case, I've never seen safe white chocolate in the store. I have no idea about cocoa nibs.
Here's the email:
Friday of this week, we will begin an exploration of the chemistry of
chocolate related to solutions, suspensions, and emulsions.
The first activity is a tasting of the following chocolate products:
Ghiradelli 60% Cacao bittersweet chocolate premium baking chips
Ghiradelli classic white baking chocolate chips
Nestle milk chocolate morsels
ShopRite semi-sweet chocolate chips
The chocolates contain soy and milk products. None contain peanuts or
peanut oil, but the packages carry the warning that foods are manufactured
in a facility that makes peanut and tree nut products.
Students will be using the information from the tasting to develop
background information for experiments with melting point and solubility.
Later lessons will use cocoa butter, lecithin, and cocoa powder, but will
not involve tasting.
If you have concerns about the tasting brands, please let me know. I
wasn't able to find chocolate at ShopRite that didn't carry the
manufacturing site warning. If you have a chocolate brand you would be
willing to send in with DS for him to evaluate it would be helpful.
Over the break, I will be shopping at Whole Food for cocoa nibs. We may
taste those since they are the roasted fermented cocoa without sugar,
milk, or flavoring. Those come from Costa Rica and do not contain nuts of
any type.
What does your 504 say about using food for lessons?
totally my fault. It used to say no food based cirriculum projects. They gave me the old...we don't do that blah blah and I don't think it is on there.
The stupid 504 is in a folder at my office. It somehow got mixed in there. I saw it the other day and didn't bring it home so i can't look until tomorrow.
I'm just irritated and irritated with myself for taking their word during the meeting. dumb @ss move on my part.
it does say ds will be included in all school sponsored activites, projects so that should cover it, but I wish I had insisted that part about food based projects be included again.
Since he can't participate tell her he should get an automatic A
I`d be really annoyed. Why do they need to taste food as part of science anyhow? Dd`s class did not taste any food in 8th grade science.
I know that my eight grade science teacher (who taught all our hs science classes as well as 7th & 8th grade science - small school) would be appalled. We did occasionally do experiments involving food in the lab, but there was a very definitive no eating EVER rule in the science lab, for safety reasons. It didn't matter what kind of experiment we were doing, even if all of the components were edible, there was no eating...
Funny you say that janelle because during 504 meeting the science teacher basically said theres strict no eating in the lab blah blah
My science teacher was hardcore. But if you're teaching seven different classes a day over 6 grade levels, you kind of have to be hardcore.
This is a damned holiday foodie project disguised as science curriculum.
I call bs.
But you knew I would. ;)
Quote from: Mfamom on December 18, 2011, 09:33:15 PM
Funny you say that janelle because during 504 meeting the science teacher basically said theres strict no eating in the lab blah blah
So the rules only apply during non-holiday season?
Will there be a Valentine's and Eastertime food experiment as well?
so, i replied to teacher that I thought in 504 meeting we agreed there is no food centered projects in science class and that none of the brands are safe etc.
here's her reply:
The lab is new and inspired by an experience in Costa Rica with the Toyota
International Teacher Program. The tasting is to discover the melting
point of chocolate and flavor characteristics of chocolate.
If Hershey's semi-sweet and milk chocolate work, ds could use those
two for the observation. I can pick those up and substitute them during
ds class period.
No one is required to do the tasting. Students who prefer not to taste the
chocolate can collect observations by interview.
ICK. Don't like her response. Why can't they all just record by obersvation????? If the experiment goes as planned with things he can't taste, then he doesn't have equal access to this classroom lesson does he? :rant:
Quote from: my3guys on December 19, 2011, 08:30:39 AM
ICK. Don't like her response. Why can't they all just record by obersvation????? If the experiment goes as planned with things he can't taste, then he doesn't have equal access to this classroom lesson does he? :rant:
I also didn't like her response and I didn't like her original email either. I thought it was because I got it yesterday when I was pretty tense spending the day with dh family and dealing with all their dysfunction.
DH says, she is making you aware, giving you the information. She's offering to substitute ingredients.
I say you weren't at the meeting. You didn't hear her talk about her lab and classroom and the dismissal of any notion there would be food.
Especially chocolate. High risk. Difficult to find white chocolate that's safe.
I shouldn't be negotiating / dealing with this at this point in the game.
Y.U.C.K.
No food rules in science labs aren't just for immediate safety-- there is a reason why we begin enforcing those rules about closed footwear, long pants, hair tied back, NO EATING OR DRINKING... at middle school.
It's because we want kids to develop HABITS that keep them safe when they are in college and beyond.
A lab is NOT for eating in.
And the reason that she "can't find" chocolate to use without warnings... SHeesh. You'd think that would have been a hint, wouldn't you, that maybe this isn't something that she ought to be doing with a PA kid in the class. But nooooooo... :insane:
Make a note of is, INFORM her that your DS will be excused from class that day and that he will be earning an A for this "assignment" that she's chosen to deny him access to, and then bring it up next year at your 504 meeting. In fact, I might well reconvene the team over the lack of that phrase-- explain (hardcore) that Sh** like THIS is why it was there to begin with.
:rant:
The lab sounds stupid anyway. ;)
I hate to tell you this, but the food went on until college. We had to do reebops in bio lab. Missed that day, and told the teacher why. "But they aren't being eaten". :banghead: Who cares that the allergic kid is severely contact reactive. Then we did a lab on the five senses. I stayed but didn not drink the mystory kool aid flavors, and did not do the i.d. the scent.
In chem. lab, we had to examine a peanut shell in a microscope. Walked out that day with an explanation.
now she's asking if Hersey's is safe.
I'm so irritated I could scream. Partly bad timing because I had a horrible day yesterday plus extention of bad day today
(cannot find ATM card, ice maker broken, need tires, car a mess, dropped cell phone in sink and of course it conveniently slid right into a cake pan full of water
I don't mind helping to make things work. But, 3 different types of chocolate, plus cocoa nibs (does anyone know anything about these)? is just pushing me off the edge. I am twisted sista today....
It's not you. She broke her word therefore your verbal agreement. That would be unacceptable under any circumstances. She's not Darth Vader, she's not supposed to alter the deal. Crummy that she's the 504 Team Leader though. How do you close the loophole the Team Leader left in place for herself?
Just tell her that this project won't be possible for your son and that non food lessons are the only appropriate venue for his education.
Then print off these emails and send a separate request (like 5min later) to have the 504 team meet again to modify his accommodations to include non food lessons.
I wonder if you can go at this in the affirmative by restating you still agree with her official no food in the lab and projects policy. When this was stated by her during the 504 meeting it met common sense, general health and safety concerns as well as ADA access criteria. Now that you've even got email to the effect that she confirms this was stated at the meeting. You wouldn't be so much disagreeing with her than saying she was right the first time which was an agreement during 504.
So they are in school this Friday? The 23rd?
So as you know we are in the same grade. ;) and the no food thing is in DS' 504. Well "no food consumed in the classroom". They can do experiments with food with two weeks notice.
Last year (when we just had "advanced" notice). Our science teacher was horrible about this stuff did. Of get it. Like the day before the lab emailed me about making ice cream. I got this at work and did NOT have a few hours to take off to deal with this to make it safe when it was not supposed to happen. Whi h I eventually emailed him and our lovely 504c. But after wasting some of my employers time. Ugh.
Another time he did not inform me of needing to take a pizza box for a thermal oven that the kids use to make their lunch on field day. I made that happen but we t through the 504c. I thought it was a valuable lesson tho techni ally a violation aS "outside" is DS classroom too. But I specified kids must bring new boxes only (several restaurants offer Thai pizza) and DS partner must wrap his food in foil and it must not contain pn.
It never ends, food in the classroom.
Get it in the 504.
I would give her the amazon URL for Guittard white and say that's the only safe Stuff. Or VNF. And she can pay for expedited shipping. But she would need to use it in q
ALL classes to avoid xc.
Oh nameless has a thread about nibs.
Problem is that they sell guittard in the stores here not even 2 hrs from her. My grocery store has gobs of it right now. And I swear I saw white chocolate too.
It does us no good with the dairy allergy so I've never paid attention to it.
MFA, I saw it at Genuardi's down here.
Although the guittard route is a good idea to get the point across.
Yesterday I called guidance lady who is awesome. I left a message saying, "I'm really uncomfortable with this science project. While I appreciate Mrs. XX trying to give me the information, it isn't an easy task to come up with 3 safe chocolates plus these cocoa things with 5 days notice. Additionally, I was starting to get a bit torched with her suggestion that ds just interview people in lieu of tasting. Please call me."
20 min later, I got an email from the science teacher saying the plans have changed and we'll do this in early January. No further explanation.
I'll hopefully speak with counselor today and find out wth
The "lab plan" needs to CHANGE permanently and REMOVE food from all experiments.
The 504 Plan was NOT supposed to be changed or abrogated by a willful staff member who is suspect of character.
There, I said it.
UNtrustworthy.
And what is WITH the arrogant, ignorant, "I know better than you so just suck it up you lowly parent" science teachers this year?
just sayin'
have tshirt
NO QUOTE
Yeah, Ajas there seems to be something going on with 8th grade science.
I prefer (obviously) to not have food in the mix. especially something like chocolate, I mean 3 kinds of chocolate!
I am glad she communicated with me at least, but I felt like her message was these are "safe" they just have a cya label. I know she didn't say that, but since I've met her before and we had the whole celiac discussion at the 504 meeting, that's how I interpreted it.
I spoke with my dh yesterday (who thought I should be flexible and help her make it work) and I explained why I was upset. When I told him that she was suggesting he "interview people in place of tasting", he changed his tune.
I'm glad the experiment got nixed, and it's totally ridiculous that you had to take it to the counselor to get some action. I hope you still send an email requesting to revise your 504 for disallow food in the curriculum. If they did it once, they will likely do it again.
Its not nixed. Just moved to a later date (TBD) in January.
I predict that my ds will come home from school Friday and tell me he was blamed for the change. I feel it coming.
thanks for the heads up about Guittard. I've never seen it up here. May have my sil check at her stores in PA.
I can probably send you some if you remind me next week.
They shouldn't blame a student for the fact that a teacher can't come up with a different lesson plan. Seriously, there are SO many lesson plan websites. There has to be another way to do this. She's just not looking for one.
Put in your request to modify the 504. Maybe you can stretch out the date for when this project is supposed to happen by doing so.
Btw, I am so glad you and Ajas are posting about this. We will have the 504 meeting for 6th grade in the spring and I am absolutely bringing science experiments up specifically. I know we have to deal with home ec, but that should be the only food in his curriculum at school. Not science!
yellow, thanks for the offer!!
Oh, they said blah blah blah there's no food in science except one experiment that involves flour.
I'm wondering....does white chocolate, semi sweet chocolate and milk chocolate have different melting points? that seems to be the crux of the experiment.
oh and the tasting. very scientific. while it will give clues maybe about texture differences, would texture/taste affect melting points?
I'm going to google the name she gave the project.
So it is the melting point of a compound? Aren't there plenty of other options for compounds that melt?
Yes, different blends of chocolate have different melting points. Though...cocao nibs are just roasted and broken up cocao beans --- which is entirely different that investigating/observing melting points of different ratios of chocolate to butterfat.
So on one hand --- he can participate if she ordered Guittard...which is peanut free and there are almonds in the facility, but NOT the same equipment. They have a statement on their website about wheat/gluten as well.
That cost, should be on her. She needs to have the same thing all day for all the labs. I can imagine things getting confused, drop a chip here, chip there, etc. Also - whatever tools they are using. And if she gets may contains peanuts chips, then warmed up that'll be aerosolized.
Same thing, all day, all the labs. Guittard, ordered online for an arm and a leg.
I'll see if I can find this lab written up somewhere - might be able to do it using something else. And though I hate food based labs too, sometimes as a science educator you've got to employ these "connections" to everything things to (1) help students become engaged and (2) help them make a knowledge-memory-connection by using everything things (like food stuff).
Not that I agree with it, but it's a strategy that is out there.
Adrienne
Really
Lab safty rules-
No eating in lab- arent we teaching them to be adults?
Never heard of eating in a science lab..... it is dangerous.. even at 8th grade....
Agreed. I think that blurring that particular safety line in middle school is :insane:
I wouldn't OK the Guittard for 2 reasons:
1) I never let my child try something for the first time out of my watch (and total PITA for me to have to buy this specialty food in advance spending $$ to check the product...PLUS it is in a facility w/ almonds, so that is another reason
2) It goes against the NO FOOD verbal agreement in 504 meeting
This is totally supicious that it was scheduled for 12/23. She just wanted to serve a holiday treat disguised as science experiment ~)
This is crazy and stressful to the child/parent with LTFA. I think you need to drive the point that peanut allergy is LIFE THREATENING - and chocolate is notoriously unsafe for PA. WHY would she want to take this risk in the classroom using risky foods? Remind her that LTPA is different from celiac in that the LTFA child can have anaphylaxis, a LIFE THREATENING reaction from a tiny amount of the allergen. The fact that she was even suggesting brands like Ghiradelli that are UNSAFE is ridiculous and shows that she does not "get it".
I wouldn't let her reschedule this for January. Tell her she is putting you in an unfair situation and creating anxiety. Why is this project so important? Tell her you've talked to many other parents about 8th grade science and NONE of their classes are using food in experiments, so obviously it is not necessary.
my son's class year used peanut butter (in a 'safe'-HA!-plastic bag that my son was told to be careful with :rant:) in an exercise involving different 'texture's whole exercise involved different types of foods in plastic bags that the kids got to 'feel' to experience the difference. No harm done but MAJOR repercussions resulted with some very good outcomes for the next line of allergic kids being taught by this teacher.
My SIL has coeliac disease and CANNOT understand that having anaphylaxis when eating barley (and therefore the efforts we need to go to to avoid it) is not the same as having to avoid gluten and the implications with an accidental exposure.
sorry to hear what you are going though.xx
Quote from: CMdeux on December 19, 2011, 10:27:40 AM
Y.U.C.K.
No food rules in science labs aren't just for immediate safety-- there is a reason why we begin enforcing those rules about closed footwear, long pants, hair tied back, NO EATING OR DRINKING... at middle school.
It's because we want kids to develop HABITS that keep them safe when they are in college and beyond.
A lab is NOT for eating in.
Highschool.
IEP.
All "food" lab materials are supposed to be approved by myself at least two weeks in advance.
No notice.
No approval.
My son didn't blink.
They made
ice cream and ate it, in chemistry lab.
Then again, he's a Sophomore, and most teachers begin to treat "children" this age as an adult. I mean most of these kids are crawling ALLLLL over each other at football games and egads, don't SPEAK of what they do at homecoming. I can very well see where even a highschool teacher isn't going to second guess my son's judgement (and he checked the ingredients himself).
I asked him about the "equipment" he used and he said they used ziplocks and ATE it, and mixed it in the Chemistry lab which is one and the same as the classroom.
His very words were "since we couldn't have an 'end of the year party (semester)' we did this instead. It was something fun." (there are no "end of the year parties" and that's all he or I know of it)
I'm pretty sure that's not directly allergy related and just due to sheer time constraints. They move pretty rapidly, and cover much material. (at least compared to even my
college level classes).
Don't fool yourself. I took OODLES of lab classes and we frequently had "afterhours" PIZZA parties studying IN the CADAVER lab with dead bodies buck a** naked. Parts everywhere.
Teacher made no mention of his allergies or anything food related to do with it, he checked the ingredients and equipment on his own, and I'm pretty sure the instructor is unaware of his allergy or has forgotten it entirely.
Don't have higher expectations for university. <shrug> Or his place of work. He owns it now. I wish he had some expectation of backup, and he does
on paper, but not in the "real world". The document is nothing more than a security blanket, as dissapointing as that sounds.
egads.No quoting... in every hospital I've worked in, people eat in the unit, despite health codes. when idph comes through, it gets tightened up, but the truth is, there's rarely time to eat off the unit, even when working 12 + hour shifts. <shrug>
I mean, people eat in their rooms, and rooms are probably "dirtier" than the areas staff eat in. I do object, however to families bringing in practically catered feasts and spreading it all over for "group" chow downs. Laypeople just don't seem to be aware of the potential harm, at least by the way I see them eat, and WHERE they put their food. I don't even see them wash their hands. :misspeak:
end no quote.
When it comes to research laboratories, there are very sound REGULATORY reasons why keeping food out of lab spaces is critical.
In any space where biological, radiological or chemical hazards are present, food intended for human consumption is against the law. Period.
It's a hazard. Hell, CHEWING GUM is a hazard in some of those environments.
Now, I understand perfectly well that middle school science is a far cry from a research scaled fast nuetron generating nuclear reactor facility.
But I guarantee that some 8th graders SOMEWHERE right now will eventually wind up in one.
No Quote Zone:
You would not believe the sh*tstorm-from-hell that it created for me, my boss, my boss' boss, and everyone else in the damned BUILDING and DEPARTMENT when one of the graduate students in my lab decided that having a cup of coffee at her (make that "my") desk four feet from a fully shielded P-32 workspace caused us all when we got (appropriately) a surprise walk-through inspection. Let's just put it this way-- many, MANY mea cupla letters were written, and frankly we're all lucky that it didn't cost anyone a job.
GGA. Until that time, the lab PI and I were pretty much the only people that thought it was any "big deal" to have food in the lab. The attitude was much as you describe, Ark-- "we're careful, we know what's safe and what isn't... blah-blah-blah... no time for anything else... I've always done it this way... "
The thing is, it's also true that all it takes is a SINGLE moment of forgetfulness and you're dead meat, and it's entirely preventable. There are a number of documented (and many, many more 'suspected') instances of harm coming to researchers from food or beverages being in workspaces where they didn't belong. A few end in fatalities, but heaven only knows how many result in cancers. My boss? Well, she had a "Silkwood" moment of her own thanks to an inadvertent (possible) internal I-131 exposure as a grad student that resulted in being under medical surveillance for YEARS afterwards. She was lucky it was just a royal PITA and nothing more than a scare. Once was enough, however and believe me, once something like that happens to you-- or once you witness a laboratory accident as an instructor-- remmebering to follow this particular "best practice" is a no brainer.
My spouse is also FOREVER getting on technicians and more junior lab personnel about food and drink in HIS lab spaces, too. It's a real nightmare once people have LEARNED these bad habits... and there is plenty at stake in his very 'real world' position, tyvm. It's an industrial accident waiting to happen, and it's DH's butt on the line if he knew about it and looked the other way, YK? So he's constantly chasing out coffee, bottles of water, plates of cookies, etc.
End NQ Zone. (Thanks)
THAT is why "no food in the lab" is pretty damned important as a matter of habitual observation. Just like wearing eye protection when you use power tools, really, or wearing a seatbelt, not yakking on a cell phone while you're driving.
Maybe SOME university settings don't think it's a big deal. I assure you, Ark, that others very definitely DO. Any course in which the lab instructor is willing to ignore basic safety isn't one that I think much of, frankly. It kind of says "you're disposable" to the students. :misspeak:
Well, uh, you know, until the public (and most everyone else stops treating hospital staff and nurses especially, like they ARE disposable, don't expect much else. ) You want professionalism there, you'll need to quit treating us like the dirt under your soles. (general you)
i dare say school administration and staff could say the same. Peoples humanity flies right out their a** when they set foot in a hospital or school. They expect blind indentured servitude and boot licking. Nothing professional at all in that. Its only going to get worse on all sides as The New Healthcare is implemented. lol.
Quote from: CMdeux on January 03, 2012, 03:47:29 PM
Maybe SOME university settings don't think it's a big deal. I assure you, Ark, that others very definitely DO. Any course in which the lab instructor is willing to ignore basic safety isn't one that I think much of, frankly. It kind of says "you're disposable" to the students. :misspeak:
You can think anything you want, but it doesn't make it true. :)
I guarantee you, our science, math, and music departments (and probably others, but those are the departments I have some experience with) are top notch. Competitive, and probably of the caliber that would put any in your area to shame. (but then again, it's probably part of why your child isn't in a b and m program, and you are none too fond of the cyber/online program she is in, either. )
But I actually have children in b and m schools.
I've been in them, at all academic levels, also, and I can say they are held in high regard by the academic and post graduate community. They eagerly await our graduates, and if you don't want to take it from me, you can take it from another community member here, who would probably be willing to vouch for a highschool in my community,
as their cousin is principal in the building. (and to that member, please, don't out our location).
You could probably look up the stats for yourself. We get invited to some very prestigious um....developments. :) (please see pm)
Really, I wouldn't impugn an entire science department based on your criteria, no more than I'd judge a nurse based on whether she takes her ten minute break during a 16 hour shift at her computer terminal.
But small world. Six degrees or less, right? ;) You just never know who lurks where. That said, I've let the hammer fall when I'm discontent with how things are going, and as critical as I am, I'm still pleased with the (again) calliber of programming and teacher involvement. When you actually have a young adult on the cusp of independence and point of no return, you begin to look at things differently, and I can honestly say I understand all that "real" world lingo now. It makes sense, even to my "rule oriented" self.