It's been a while. One of the accommodations is NO FOOD that isn't from a parent.
She gave him an after dinner mint. THANK GOD DS is smart and did not eat it. There was no label or anything on it. Yeah DS for not eating it. So I email her after I cool down and say "A phone call and this would be a non issue. Would have sent something to satisfy this and would not have violated his 504." I still have heard NOTHING from her.
Does the student's 504 plan have an accommodation where school staff will support student's self-advocacy? What I get from what you're writing, if I am understanding the subtext, is preserving the relationship while drilling past (1) ignorance (2) failure of the principal to include his or her self subject to 504 compliance.
You could point out that child grows through age and developmentally appropriate stages towards self-management as an adult. As a student this creates a stalemate that could coerce an ingestion, violating both the accommodation to not offer food and failing to support the student's self-advocacy.
Dr. Robert Wood has an illustrative story about a baked item from a colleague's wife who assured him the cookies were free of peanut. It was the one time he broke his rule about accepting baked goods from others. He ended up needing 5 doses of epinephrine and overnight hospitalization (if I remember correctly) to survive that reaction.
A world class allergist's spouse had neglected to calculate a contaminated spatula. Surely, being a mere mortal he or she is capable of that oversight but unlike the allergist's wife, the principal will be held accountable for not only 504 violation but very possible negligence. You'd hate to see that happen.
A choice of last resort would be Gebser notice. See school resources or use a search engine to find an example. You would effectively notice the school meaning it would be properly informed in writing and to ignore that notice requires making deliberate choices that may constitute deliberate indifference.
In theory. I am not a lawyer and cannot give out legal advice.
In the note I sent her I mentioned how we at home practice for these such events and how grateful I was that he did what we've drilled him on but I don't thing that the self advocacy thing is in the 504.
Thanks and I will look up Gebser. I am wondering if she has sent my original email to the the schools legal department or if she is just going to ignore it.
My wording didn't come through, my fault. The principal, regardless of clerical structuring of the 504 document, must comply with 504, ADA. Even law enforcement out on a call for service are subject to ADA compliance but for exigencies. Compliance isn't exempted in public schools. ADA is not something administration or staff could choose to participate in or not.
This may also be a good point for some hands-on education of the principal, nurse, and possibly other staff.
If you can afford and have the time, I'd go buy a bunch of different candy canes -- some with warnings, some without, and some with claims of "X allergen free" . . . and also print out a copy of the food label laws. Have a brief meeting and education session. Let them try to decipher "safety" and define "harmless" . . . don't do it for them. Leave with the candy -- NONE stays there.
You can also do this with photos of ingredient lists from candy, if you don't want to buy. Make a powerpoint lesson and email it, cc'ing all who need to see it and get it.
I think there needs to be an eye-opening lesson that does NOT entail the injury or death of a child on their watch.
This isn't just about your child's limitations (or not) as to self-advocacy. This is about the adults' limitations as to understanding that they are NOT to feed your child or even OFFER food. You have to illustrate the "why".
Sorry you are having to deal with this!
Quote
"It's just a candy cane principal. It's not dangerous to anyone. It's harmless."
Right.
:disappointed: :disappointed: :disappointed:
Perhaps a "Do Not Feed This Child" letter would help the principal to get it.
"DO NOT FEED THIS CHILD!" (http://foodallergysupport.olicentral.com/index.php/topic,2363.msg3537.html#msg3537)
Those may help break up the perception road block. It won't fit as a one-timer inside the 504, at least not in a way that would create fidelity and increase retention in the minds of non-core staff because it must fight for attention in the mix of messages and directives the staff are facing daily, plus proper transfer to peripheral or temporary staff.
Offered as a regular in-service where it could be marketed as a benefit to the school to reduce oversights and increase compliance may help buy in. Maybe the simpler the question the better: Dear Principal, we have this straightforward accommodation. Where is the breakdown on implementing it? I would like to schedule a 30 minute meeting to resolve this.
Show you've made good faith to resolve it at the building level then escalate to district as necessary. Do this all in writing. No response = 504 coordinator and asst super or super.
This is a hard one to implement overall despite its simplicity due to the multiple layers of interaction. It also may conflict with messages such as inclusion -- not that I'm defending the school but we have an altered mindset to process cognitive risk of otherwise inert material to 99.9% of the population.
***If there is a 504 plan in place at my school (as principal) that states NO food that isn't from home/parent, then if someone wants to give out food they can not because it would violate every kid in the school who has a 504 that states this.***
No? Would that be a valid argument to the "school admin determines"?
Your 504 plan accommodation would OVERRIDE the district policy -- is that what you are asking? The answer should be YES -- 504 plan accommodation such as you described would mean the admin could not invoke that district policy as "protection" as to why he/she could give out candy.
Your principal has basically violated the 504, IMHO.
Right with the candy at the principals thing most definitely.
There's the administrative answer. Then there's the political answer.
I would say that the PTA might reasonably assume it *might* be violating somebody's 504 if giving food out . . . might even be a kid with diabetes or other food-related medical need. The safest and most inclusive (least liability for the PTA and for the kids) would be FOOD FREE events in all things.
Editing for privacy- Sorry if it's messing up the flow.
You could let this do the talking for you. The crux of the matter is "significant assistance". It should land with an otherworldly
thud.
OCR Case Summary (1993), Irvine (CA) Unified Sch. Dist. (http://main.diabetes.org/dorg/living-with-diabetes/edmats-lawyers/atty-irvine-ocr-lof.pdf)
QuoteOCR Case Summary (1993), Irvine (CA) Unified Sch. Dist. OCR concluded the district violated 34 CFR 104.4(b)(1)(v) and 28 CFR 35.130(b)(1)(v) by failing to either provide the necessary support services to enable student to participate in the PTA's after-school program or cease providing the significant assistance to the PTA program.
Wright, P. (2014, January 1). Allergies and Anaphylaxis - Wrightslaw. Retrieved December 11, 2014, from http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/allergy.index.htm (http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/allergy.index.htm)
Editing for privacy.
I am wondering if she is afraid to say anything . . . maybe afraid to make it worse than what she's already done?
Have you had zero response to your email to her?
If so, I'd maybe forward it to her with a top line of, "Awaiting your response."
Not a word in person or via email.
Many school districts have policy as to required email response and time frame. I'm surprised she didn't at least respond to acknowledge receipt.
I'd forward to her again -- always either cc or bcc yourself . . .
then begin considering to whom you will forward at district level with notification of zero response from principal and ask the district how this will be handled? (With some sort of request for response within a certain time frame.)
It would be fair to ask (them, in writing) at this point where in the 504 process you are in to address violations, that you would like to ensure all safeguards for procedure are in place. The amount of time to response is critical as the 504 accommodations are explicitly to address life-threatening disability. You could also ask for them to provide a copy of their 504 procedural handbook and location of their grievance procedure. Right now you're not doing anything but performing due diligence by investigating your child's educational rights.
One notch up is you're concerned of a lack of a response at the building level, but at least tried before reaching out to the district, state, or federal level for response. Another option is providing some related open records from previous OCR letters of findings or settlement agreements that map out responsibilities. Just don't be surprised if it fails at the district level. Some administrators like administration games but their tolerance may be lower threshold than they first appear. More blustery.
In the meantime cement this all in writing with all the names, dates that an investigator may need to see to interpret compliance or lack thereof. Create a log with information of high evidentiary quality if possible even in cases like this where lapsed time may be inference of deliberate choice to not act despite informed.
BTW, not a lawyer can't give out legal advice.
I sent a nice "Wanted to be sure you got this and that we're all clear."
Got a response within hours this time. It was very curt and pretty much a "screw you".
will repost in OT upon request
.
The policy of giving the admin the green light to act as King (or queen) is not OK by me . . . and any 504 accommodation can and will trump. SHOULD TRUMP!!
Just my opinion . . . not a lawyer . . . it's a stupid attempt at work around, IMO.
In what regard? Like an IRAC analysis?
Quote from: guess on December 16, 2014, 11:13:06 AM
In what regard? Like an IRAC analysis?
Well yes and no. From a FA view it seems to leave a LOT of room for error (leaving it to the desecration of the building admin). Though I guess it depends on how clued in the building admin is.
Why would any building admin WANT this responsibility and liability? It is stooooopid!
As worded, it could work. As shown, execution is lacking.
From what I can tell there are two interrelated junctures for decision making.
1. Policy can expand on federal protections but they can't reduce them. Does administrator factor this in? Yes, move on to next step. No, go back to start.
2. Does the approval process of the administrator take in to consideration the necessary allergens, actual risk-benefit calculations and access issues to ensure FAPE? Yes, (not likely) all kids needs coordinated. No, (likely) go back to drawing board.
In my eyes the problem is the principal going maverick like he or she is a one-person Halloween special, peddling sweets and encouraging ingestion in direct opposition of 504 compliance, an unreasonable expectation placed upon the child's age-appropriate ability to self advocate, and common sense.
My personal opinion is the administrator is being petty. Dial the candy back, you know? It's not that hard. But maybe that's what s/he is doing. *shrug*
I can't think of a single credible medical resources that encourages adults, ANY adults, to give children more candy.
Quote from: ajasfolks2 on December 16, 2014, 06:35:27 PM
Why would any building admin WANT this responsibility and liability? It is stooooopid!
EXACTLY! Why would they want to make those decisions? It goes back to being unqualified to make the medical decision of giving food to a child with any number of food related issues.
I'd go one step further . . . it goes back to them NOT having the express permission from parent/guardian to FEED ANY CHILD at the school, except possibly for the proscribed lunch / meals if the parents don't or can't.
(https://acinemadownalane.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/gene-wilder-as-willy-wonka.jpeg)
Can't get that image out of my head. Then again I love Gene Wilder.
Today DS comes home and tells me "Teacher was giving out candy canes at the end of the day. She left them on her desk and said we could take one when we left. I touched it but then thought I shouldn't take it so I left it."
Holiday break is in 2 day.
My head is about to bust.
What now???
???
Any thoughts on how to proceed? I know what I WANT to do but that may be a bad idea ;)
Well, go ahead and write the e-mail that you want to write.
Just don't SEND that particular e-mail.
In fact, just so that such things cannot happen, btw, I leave my e-mails UNADDRESSED when I write one of those, er-- smokers. :poop:
Then, take a deep breath and write the letter that will get the results that you are hoping for.
What does the 504 state about food in the classroom and whether your son is permitted to be given food at school?
Do you have a copy of your school's 504 grievance process? You already addressed this with the principal. That did not have the desired effect. Personally, I would move on to the next step, which would be a 504 grievance within the district. Follow it exactly and do not allow them to deviate from it either. That is, assuming that the 504 specifically addresses incidents such as this.
delete for poster privacy
These two issues are completely seperate from the PTA stuff.
His 504 says no food in the classroom.
With it being so close to break I sent the 504 lead an email this morning. Still nothing. I will request the grievance police if /when I hear from her. I am wondering if there is too munch info here now. I'm just all over the place.
And you are right about the unaddressed email ;)
Apparently because the 504 doesn't specify OFFER DS food but just ingest, they did follow the plan. ??? ??? ???
The solution is to call a 504 meeting with the team and suggesting retraining.
Note: Particularly sarcastic today...
Because it would be perfectly ok to offer some crack cocaine, as long as I didn't let the kiddos actually ingest it. Hoping you can come to a good solution - because they seem to be following the letter, but definitely not the spirit.
I told the woman "I know plenty of adults who are on a diet who can't walk past a candy jar without picking something up."She said "Would he eat it?" Um....well if he isn't offered it we don't have to worry about that now do we? I said he's 7, he has a mind of his own. Do I HOPE he wouldn't, of course I hope he wouldn't but I also know and there are studies that show kids DO start to push these boundaries at some point.
I am at such a loss. I have no confidence that ANY of the plan is being followed when this VERY SIMPLE item isn't, ya know?
You'll probably have to point out what negligence and duty of care is in the most basic, direct way here. In writing, CC'd to appropriate persons as notice.
So sorry I did not see your post earlier!!
(Was celebrating our son's 16th bday -- pretty thrilled and overwhelmed that we've got him to this age alive and in one piece. You will understand in a few years yourself. :heart: )
First, I'm reminded of a couple of threads (here and old place -- Schools and OffTopic) as to "Do NOT Feed this Child!" directives.
Offering to feed is the same as intent to feed in my personal definition of things. I am not an attorney. I'm just interpreting the English language. Proving intent is always hard -- for lay persons AND legal authorities. ;D
Sounds like part of the "retrain" needs to include a black-and-white, printed up list of definitions. This would be attached to the 504. I'm serious and not joking here. Remember how we used to have to define "tree nut" (well, some of us still need to be doing that) . . . with all the nuts listed?
Besides the retraining and serious discussion and WRITTEN understandings, there needs to be a signature page for the 504 (referenced in the accommodations) which requires EACH AND EVERY staff member that has ANYTHING to do with the student to read and sign the 504 with something to the effect of "I have read and fully understand ____ (child name) 504 and will comply."
As to the email suggested by CMdeux -- I put my own email addy in the "to" line. I send it to myself. I go back later (after steam is no longer coming from me ears and I am not yelling bad words) and sit down, open, and pretend I am the other person now reading my email.
It has kept me -- MOST of the time -- from sending something I might later regret.
Then I change it in MSWord (copy, paste) and send what needs to be sent.
However, I believe something of this seriousness (your candycane situation) should be addressed by parents within 24 hours, or it can be argued (by other side) that it really wasn't "all that important".
For extreme situations, we've sent emails within 4 hours and delivered a printed copy of the email (by hand) to the main office / admin in charge.
If you've not become familiar with the great documentation resource that I love -- here is the link:
Re: DOCUMENTING (cya) (http://foodallergysupport.olicentral.com/index.php/topic,3780.msg75944.html#msg75944)
One of the old threads I was thinking of:
http://allergy.hyperboards.com/action/view_topic/topic_id/9254 (http://allergy.hyperboards.com/action/view_topic/topic_id/9254)
Quote from: ajasfolks2 on December 22, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
Besides the retraining and serious discussion and WRITTEN understandings, there needs to be a signature page for the 504 (referenced in the accommodations) which requires EACH AND EVERY staff member that has ANYTHING to do with the student to read and sign the 504 with something to the effect of "I have read and fully understand ____ (child name) 504 and will comply."
Happy Birthday to the kiddo (well, a kiddo in our eyes right? lol) I always say this is the easy part! I know where they are, who they are friends with and what they are up to at all times! lol
I started the log. Thanks for the link!
As for the above thing, is there a form you know of? What would it be called? And would I make the accommodation of "All staff with any direct contact with XYZ is required to sign the added sheet stating that they have read, understand and will comply with all the accommodations in this 504 plan." kind of thing?
Oh here's another kicked I just found out- The 504 coordinator who I emailed within 24 hours of the candy cane issue- She left this summer! Never got ANY information that she left. Nice!
Next thing, they are saying my kid is lying about where the candy canes were. He has stated the 3 times I have asked they were on the teachers desk. I also asked another Mom to ask her kiddo and she said the same thing where as the teacher is saying they were on a table outside the classroom. WHY would 2 kids lie about that? They don't know why I am asking. They don't know what's going on. They have NO REASON to not tell the truth about it. So I get to spend the rest of the school year with a teacher who won't admit to the truth because they are afraid of being wrong.
Over it.
I think you will have to make up your own signature form . . . I'd be inclined to look at the school "sig forms" for other stuff where the parents must sign and use that as model. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? ;D
Sounds like teacher realizes the mistake and is not going to admit it . . . maybe ask a couple more kids/parents for data points.
Document everything.
But you know that and then some now.
:coolbeans:
Teacher wouldn't even look at me through the meeting. Principal just nodded. No one really addressed the violations- I just repeated how the #1 thing is DO NOT FEED THE KID.
And they want to ADD food to the classroom????? Really? WTH? "It's the best motivator we have." I suggest that perhaps that needs to change because there are going to be more and more kids coming through with issues (not only FA's). She didn't even care. I don't think she was even listening at that point, too busy rolling her eyes at everything.
The districts person who was there also said of the prior 504 "This is set up to be violated!" Well, your people are the ones who wrote, signed and so on for several years now. I did manage a note from the Dr. that said they need to keep wiping things down but because he specifically mentioned peanut but the original document say milk, egg and highly sensitized to peanut and tree nut they were balking (well, does it matter which specific allergen he noted? The remedy is the same so you are being pedantic people!)
Oh wow. I don't have anything helpful to add until I've had some coffee--and even then--this is unbelievable. But (((hugs)))
I hope you've treated yourself to some time for you. It can be really hard after a meeting like that.
Quote from: guess on December 16, 2014, 06:47:40 PM
In my eyes the problem is the principal going maverick like he or she is a one-person Halloween special, peddling sweets and encouraging ingestion in direct opposition of 504 compliance, an unreasonable expectation placed upon the child's age-appropriate ability to self advocate, and common sense.
<respectfully snipped>
Oh, how I love this statement!! Needed to see it big and bold! ;D
Did you use digital recorder and record the meeting? Were you the only one at meeting on "your side" and everyone else was school staff?
Your teacher has been instructed by admin to STFU at meetings and say nothing to you, is my guess.
Oh she had PLENTY to say. About how this and that and this wasn't working (which she made NO mention of to us in the last 6 months they've been in the class with him or brought to our attention). She just wouldn't look at me.
My DH did go too so it was us vs. the 5 of them. We did not record it as 1) we were thinking we were just discussing the violation and 2) DH though that would be to adversarial against my better judgement.
If you record, they must record too so all you must do is notify them ahead and bring recorder next time. I know it may seem adversarial, but it's necessary for all sides that things be fully documented in order to help avoid "misunderstandings" . . . so couch it that way as a "help" for all and proceed accordingly.
Sit in the quiet of the morning or late evening and try to write down (or email yourself or compose Word doc) every detail you can recall from the meeting.
Keep the emotion out of it, however it's ok to describe if/when certain person's behaved emotionally (including yourselves) and/or to include how you were made to feel.
Then email it to yourself as an attachment so you've got date stamp and put it in your records & documents. At least you'll have that.
Have you been provided a handbook on procedural safeguards and your rights in due process from the district? Meaning, did they give you a copy prior to any meetings?
Prior to meetings do they send you a list of team member attendees?
Did they provide you with the sources they used to come to this decision? Did you provide them with any sources to confirm or counter theirs?
Did they provide you with meaningful participation in the discussion to alter placement?
It's okay to ask for meeting notes but do ask in FERPA compliant form.
If the answer to any of those is "no" then take 10 minutes to recall those dates and note that you were not provided said items. An email to yourself CC'd to your spouse with a title you'll use for all these sort of notes will work but be sure to print it out and put it in the binder that will become the 504 archives.