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Discussion Boards => Schools and Food Allergies => Topic started by: 504 Mom on November 27, 2012, 04:26:48 PM

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Title: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 27, 2012, 04:26:48 PM
Hi, I used to be a regular here.  I am not using my regular name in case school comes to this board.  It is a long story, but if the student already has a 504 and the school wants to get rid of accomodations that are needed, can the school hold a 504 meeting without the parent and revise the 504 to take away accomodations?  If anyone has an answer, please pm me.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 04:38:59 PM
We have a very recent thread on this very thing. I've got to run to school but will post a link when I return if you've not found it.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
Here's one, but this is not what I was thinking of:

Please help- new school only wants to do allergy action plan
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 04:43:46 PM
Also this:

504 for hs going to be a fight
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: CMdeux on November 27, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
The short answer....


they can,

BUT... if the original 504 plan included parents as "member of the team" then you should IMMEDIATELY and IN WRITING ask "the team" to explain why your input was deemed unnecessary, and who has provided the expertise in life-management and successful allergen-avoidance that you had been bringing to the table.

In other words, sure, the law doesn't specifically FORBID them doing it... but they've just opened themselves up for a world of hurt in terms of liability if they make a mistake that results in a reaction, and they've done it KNOWING that you have knowledge and expertise that they don't... and deciding that such input was... er... "inconvenient?"


From a procedural standpoint, find out what they discussed in said meeting, and find out how they have justified excluding you.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Mookie86 on November 27, 2012, 05:00:58 PM
I found on wrightslaw.com that they are not obligated to have parents participate in developing or modifying a 504 Plan. 

Quote
www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=7085
the federal regulations for Section 504 do not require parent participation in the process

I'm sorry you are going through this.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: CMdeux on November 27, 2012, 06:07:25 PM
Right-- but what that means is that they consider your input to be "not particularly useful or necessary" in the context of the 504 plan or changes therein.

Which is seldom, if ever, a legitimate point of view when considering a life-threatening medical condition.  Because it begs the question... well, then whose expertise WAS being considered?  And how does it cover the essentials of good management?  I mean, sure-- teachers ought to be involved as well, since no amount of nursing/parent/administrator input substitutes for that input.  But the same thing is true for parent input here.

It's one thing to do this with a learning-related disability.  Not so okay with a medical/complex one.

KWIM?

Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Mookie86 on November 27, 2012, 06:13:13 PM
CM, I was stating the law, not my personal opinions on the matter.  Of course I think parent input would be helpful.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: twinturbo on November 27, 2012, 06:30:20 PM
One of the recent OCR findings on procedural safeguards might come in useful later on. Will let the original poster come forth for credit if she wishes otherwise treating it as a 'No Quote' to play it safe.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnx0ZWFtYW5hcGh5bGF4aXN8Z3g6M2I0MDk2NDZhNDcxNmMwYg

My thoughts turn towards this becoming a game of clerical skills and wit where you put the slow grind on them that someone is watching and waiting.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: momma2boys on November 27, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
I have a thread here I will pull up when I am on computer.  They tried to do this to my ds and I fought them and won.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: twinturbo on November 27, 2012, 07:06:48 PM
Quote from: CMdeux on November 27, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
The short answer....


they can,

BUT... if the original 504 plan included parents as "member of the team" then you should IMMEDIATELY and IN WRITING ask "the team" to explain why your input was deemed unnecessary, and who has provided the expertise in life-management and successful allergen-avoidance that you had been bringing to the table.

In other words, sure, the law doesn't specifically FORBID them doing it... but they've just opened themselves up for a world of hurt in terms of liability if they make a mistake that results in a reaction, and they've done it KNOWING that you have knowledge and expertise that they don't... and deciding that such input was... er... "inconvenient?"


From a procedural standpoint, find out what they discussed in said meeting, and find out how they have justified excluding you.

You know... this is something I really need to contemplate regarding my own school issues.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 08:15:50 PM
Regardless of what the law says--and yep, it's true, as most folks dealing with 504s know--parents do tend to be brought in on the team, as they are really one of the "variety of sources"* that is typically considered.

If you were on the team when the 504 eligibility was given, I would make a case to the school that nothing has changed to make you an unimportant source.  Your input was a critical part of the variety of sources they used then--and it is now.  So this is what CM recommended--I don't need to restate it.  :)

If you are at a different school, then this tack may not be as effective.  We moved--not only to a new district but to a new state--and the high school wanted to dispense with the 504 at our meeting.  We won--and it wasn't much of a fight.  It was clear I knew the law and I said we were not interested in getting rid of the 504 and only having an IHP.  And they didn't balk after the meeting, which was lucky for us.

----------

I think it's time to start documenting.  If you have been given this information--about the school wanting to remove accommodations--send a Letter of Understanding (LOU) to the school.  It's factual and without emotion.  You spell out what you understand has happened and ask them to clarify (by a certain date) if the circumstances are not as you have described them. 

If they have also already indicated that they are planning to have a reevaluation without you present, note that as well, and in the LOU indicate why you are an important source and must be part of their variety of sources. 

I know it's risky to give test results to school officials, but we have done it--and with good results.  You may consider that here, if you have recent results.  And you could even include that in your LOU and say, "DC's medical condition has not changed (assuming tests show that), and therefore his eligibility should not change either."

Some helpful links in case you need to review--especially in light of the new ADAAA:
http://www.nsba.org/SchoolLaw/Federal-Regulations/Archive/504-FAQs.html
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html








*The Section 504 regulatory provision at 34 C.F.R. 104.35(c) requires that school districts draw from a variety of sources in the evaluation process so that the possibility of error is minimized.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 08:23:40 PM
In relation to twinturbo's post (love seeing the google docs version btw!), make sure to see your district's procedural safeguarrds to see if the school is following them:

18. What is an appropriate evaluation under Section 504?

Recipient school districts must establish standards and procedures for initial evaluations and periodic re-evaluations of students who need or are believed to need special education and/or related services because of disability. The Section 504 regulatory provision at 34 C.F.R. 104.35(b) requires school districts to individually evaluate a student before classifying the student as having a disability or providing the student with special education. Tests used for this purpose must be selected and administered so as best to ensure that the test results accurately reflect the student's aptitude or achievement or other factor being measured rather than reflect the student's disability, except where those are the factors being measured. Section 504 also requires that tests and other evaluation materials include those tailored to evaluate the specific areas of educational need and not merely those designed to provide a single intelligence quotient. The tests and other evaluation materials must be validated for the specific purpose for which they are used and appropriately administered by trained personnel.

19. How much is enough information to document that a student has a disability?

At the elementary and secondary education level, the amount of information required is determined by the multi-disciplinary committee gathered to evaluate the student. The committee should include persons knowledgeable about the student, the meaning of the evaluation data, and the placement options. The committee members must determine if they have enough information to make a knowledgeable decision as to whether or not the student has a disability. The Section 504 regulatory provision at 34 C.F.R. 104.35(c) requires that school districts draw from a variety of sources in the evaluation process so that the possibility of error is minimized. The information obtained from all such sources must be documented and all significant factors related to the student's learning process must be considered. These sources and factors may include aptitude and achievement tests, teacher recommendations, physical condition, social and cultural background, and adaptive behavior. In evaluating a student suspected of having a disability, it is unacceptable to rely on presumptions and stereotypes regarding persons with disabilities or classes of such persons. Compliance with the IDEA regarding the group of persons present when an evaluation or placement decision is made is satisfactory under Section 504.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 08:30:40 PM
Okay--this is just a really good refresher article for you. I recommend it highly.

http://www.wisbar.org/am/template.cfm?section=wisconsin_lawyer&template=/cm/contentdisplay.cfm&contentid=92733

Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 27, 2012, 09:12:57 PM
Thank you, everyone.  These are some great links.  It dawned on me that no one can pm me, because I am here as a guest right now.  I don`t want to post details about what happened, but would be happy to tell people by pm.  I think I will register with a new user name.  Moderators, can I do that? 


modified at the request of the original poster 
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: rebekahc on November 27, 2012, 09:52:51 PM
You can register with a new name or make a sub account of your current ID that will show posts made with that ID as if they were separate accounts. It's handy to do that because you can easily switch between IDs without having to log in and out. Also, you won't need to go through the registration process and come up with another email address. My rebekahc ID is a sub account of my Admin ID.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 27, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
I just tried to register, but it is telling me that my email address is already being used (which it is by me under the user name I have had here for a long time).  I cannot figure out how to do the subaccount.  It is easier for me to not do the subaccount, because I don`t want to accidentally use my old user name.  Too many posts in the past showing the age and gender of my child, what state we are in, etc.  Need to be anonymous for now.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: Macabre on November 27, 2012, 11:29:29 PM
To create a sub account, you log in under your old account and create it there.  I can understand if you don't want to do that--but just to say how to do it in case you decide to later. 

We know the importance of anonymity. :heart:  You don't have to give any details--we can still try to help with general info.  :)
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: rebekahc on November 28, 2012, 09:02:47 AM
With the sub account, if you accidentally post under the wrong user name, it's a simple click to change which account made the post.  You get a drop down list at the very top of the reply box saying Use account: - if you accidentally use the wrong one, just edit the post and use the drop down to change it.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc23/rebekahmom/sub-accounts2.png)

Sub accounts do not show in your profile or on the member list.  The only people who could see your sub accounts are the two admins (and it takes some digging which neither of us really have the time or inclination for, FWIW).  Also, if at some point you want to merge all your posts into one account, you can do that with sub accounts.

Unfortunately, our software only allows one registration per email address.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: twinturbo on November 28, 2012, 09:25:21 AM
How uncouth would it be to suggest a new account then post in OT so Google doesn't index? I have no idea how admins would feel about it so don't go by what I say.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: rebekahc on November 28, 2012, 10:47:41 AM
It's fine to register a new account, but one must have a second email address with which to do it.  That's part of why sub accounts are so useful.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: maeve on November 28, 2012, 11:17:21 AM
twinturbo brings up a good point.  Might it be best to move this to OT where it's not indexed or has the train already left the station for that (meaning that it might have already been indexed in the day that it's been up)?
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: ajasfolks2 on November 28, 2012, 03:55:32 PM
Mac posted the link I was thinking of in the cobwebbed brain of mine!

Hang in there -- you know we'll help in any way we can.

  :grouphug:
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 28, 2012, 08:44:03 PM
I managed to link my accounts.  Anyone who wants to is welcome to pm me.  I cannot post the story on the board.   I thought about posting this in OT initially, but still thought it might show up on google.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 28, 2012, 09:07:07 PM
Apparently I cannot edit a post that I wrote as a guest.  Is that correct?  I am trying to delete a couple of sentences in my last post on page 1.  It won`t let me do it if I am logged in or if I am a guest.  There were a couple of sentences that I was intending to delete later.
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: CMdeux on November 28, 2012, 09:38:34 PM
ANY moderator can do that at your request.  Just send a PM and quote your post, indicating (maybe in red or something) precisely what you'd like modified.

Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: ajasfolks2 on November 29, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Just checking to be sure you were able to get any MOD to edit your guest posts. 
Title: Re: Need quick answer: is this legal?
Post by: 504 Mom on November 30, 2012, 12:33:31 PM
Yes, it is taken care of.  Thank you.