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Title: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 21, 2013, 12:40:06 PM
Dd has PA, but underwent OIT a couple years ago and is doing great.  She developed a pecan/walnut allergy around the end of the treatment, but it has never been more than "itchy lips" unlike her full blown ana with her PA.

She has recently eaten two types of cheeses that she says also makes her lips itchy.  Here's the rub - they are from a small local deli with a selection of organic cheeses and they did not mark which cheese was which when I got the 5 different kinds. (They just cut them from a big hunk and wrap the piece in brown paper.)  So I really don't know what sort of cheeses they were - some may have been goat milk based, but I"m not sure.  Both times dd was eating two of the group - one made her itch, the other didn't.  But I'm fairly confident each time was with different cheeses.

She drinks a cappuccino every morning - lots of milk, with no problem.  So I don't think it's a milk issue.  What is in cheese that is not in milk, or what is in only some cheese?? I suppose it could be cross contamination from where they cut them, but they don't have pecans/walnuts in the deli.

I'm going back to the cheese place after lunch to get more, slice them on a clean board, and have them label them.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: twinturbo on January 21, 2013, 12:51:48 PM
My first thought: cross-contam. Shared equipment for virtually everything. A lot of the european style cheese plates I've had come with nut breads.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: GingerPye on January 21, 2013, 01:24:05 PM
yeah --- ask how they slice the cheese -- on what equipment and what else do they slice on that equipment?
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: CMdeux on January 21, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
Yup.  XC.

Some cheeses-- especially specialty/artisanal types, may be "washed/cured/sealed" with different things during production, too-- so while I don't KNOW of a cheese that requires a walnut-based ingredient, that doesn't mean that there isn't one.  KWIM?

We recently ran across something that surprised the heck out of us-- DH pointed the label out to me, because I would NEVER have figured cheese to be a risk for almond XC, but it was.  Apparently some kind of "amaretto" wash during curing-- I'd heard of ports and stouts used that way, but never flavored liqueurs.  Well, you learn something new every day, I guess.

Also-- pistachios are a known risk because of that one kind of Italian cheese with them in it-- mortadella?  (ironic name, that)

Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: twinturbo on January 21, 2013, 02:44:52 PM
Some cheeses come wrapped in nuts, too. American chevre in particular comes to mind in innovative additions probably because there's no regional tradition to uphold.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: Macabre on January 21, 2013, 02:53:04 PM
I'm thinking mortadella.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 21, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
It definitely isn't mortadella.  There was a cheddar, a tarentaise, a manchego, and one other (a gruyere I think).  This is a tiny place.  I can see them cut the cheese (ha, no 7 yo humor please!) on the same cutting board they use to cut sandwiches, etc.  They have a tiny menu - a handful of sandwiches and a couple soups.  They have a cheese board snack that might have walnuts on it, I'll have to check.  And they have a super tasty chicken salad that does have candied pecans.  I could see how maybe a chicken salad sandwich was cut on the board and some fell on the board.  But it was clean looking when I saw her cut the cheeses, so that would make a pretty high sensitivity to x-con.

She's also had all but the tarentaise before without an issue, though I can't be sure they are the same makers each time.

I went after I posted and asked them for a bit of each cheese, labeled with maker, etc, cut on a clean sheet of butcher paper each time.  We'll see how that works.  I'll have dd taste them tonite.  I have an idea it was the tarentaise and the other unknown one that were the culprits, but I can't prove it.  If she still reacts, I'll have to call the cheese makers and find out what they do to their cheeses.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: twinturbo on January 21, 2013, 03:26:58 PM
Can you get it tested to walnut or any other nut? Mmm, aged cheese in the mail.

Are you thinking about mold strains? That I wouldn't even know where to start.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: krasota on January 21, 2013, 04:25:55 PM
So the deli does have some tree nuts?  What about something oily--maybe a special walnut pesto or something similar?  Oily residues seem to be harder to eliminate on a busy counter.

I react to some of the mold inoculated cheeses.  I also react to pork.  Cutting/slicing machine x-c is a huge issue for me, mostly because of pork (moldy aged cheeses aren't really known for easy slicing).
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: hedgehog on January 21, 2013, 05:33:46 PM
From what you have said, it sounds like XC to me.  But I do know someone who is allergic to cheese, but not milk.  And by allergic, I mean anaphylaxis from minute amounts.  I'm not sure if it's rennet he's allergic to, or something that is produced when milk turns to cheese.  He avoids ALL cheese, made with rennet or not. I'm not sure whether that is from history, or to be sure there is no mistake in what kind he can have, or concern for XC, etc. 
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: Linden on January 21, 2013, 05:41:55 PM
Just to clarify, while we are talking deli products:

Mortadella = not a cheese, but an Italian "ham" type product that can be made with nuts

Mozzarella = an Italian cheese product that is not necessarily made from cow's milk but can be made from buffalo's milk and I think other types of milk as well.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: CMdeux on January 21, 2013, 07:48:03 PM
Ahhh-- thanks, Linden!  I never knew what the heck that stuff was, exactly.  Just that pistachios in a savory sliced deli thing sounded...


well, nasty even without allergies.  LOL.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 21, 2013, 08:00:46 PM
Thanks, Linden.  Never seen it IRL, not sure I'd recognize it if I did. :)

Got my cheeses after work.  She cleaned the knife before and during each cheese, and cut them on a clean sheet of wax paper for each one.

Dd got the lip itchies with the tarentaise again.  WTH?   So I'll be calling tomorrow to find out what is in it, or what it's processed with. 

They do use a walnut pesto on one of their sandwiches, so I was figuring that was the case, but now I'm pretty sure it isn't.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: CMdeux on January 21, 2013, 08:26:32 PM
http://thistlehillfarm.com/aboutthecheese.htm

I dunno, Aggie.  ???


Really seems more probable that somehow, the outside of the rind was handled by someone with walnut residue on his/her hands at some point-- which, yes, is really low XC or should be...


but the alternative is even further 'out there' if you KWIM...

Because that cheese sounds like a REALLY straight-up thing in terms of production. 

Is it possible that it's just really high in histamines?

Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: Macabre on January 21, 2013, 08:30:55 PM
I've seen mortadella, but I tend to have veteran low expectations if delis, lol.  I mean as far as cross contamination is concerned. <shudder>
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: lakeswimr on January 21, 2013, 08:34:02 PM
Was the cheese they cut brand new, right out of the wrapper or had it been previously cut?  Clean gloves and cutting board won't take away xcontam that may have already been there if it weren't a brand new piece of cheese right out of the wrapper.  It could also be factory xcontam.  Maybe it is wrapped on shared equip with some allergen.

I tend to think things like this are usually xcontam and less likely to be brand new allergens, although new ones can pop up any time.  Good luck figuring it out. 
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: GoingNuts on January 22, 2013, 06:16:03 AM
My local cheese shop sells a pistachio-studded cheddar, among other nut-related things.  ~)
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 22, 2013, 07:05:40 AM
lakeswimmer, true.  Maybe I'll try again when they get a new block.

McC, I agree.  Seems like straight up cheese to me.  (scratch head)

It's not a huge deal, per se, so much as if she starts to have minor reactions to other things I can start to figure out common ingredients.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: rebekahc on January 22, 2013, 09:00:17 AM
A few other places in Vermont have started making tarentaise cheese.  Here's what one said...

Quote
This is one cheesy do-gooder. Made from a recipe created by John Putnam at Thistle Hill Farm, who was inspired by the French cheese Abondance, this is Jeremy Stephenson's reinterpretation. Spring Brook Farm makes great cheese while hosting city kids for rural education programs. Raw, grass-fed cow milk makes for neon yellow cheese replete with spicy notes and a prickly pineapple finish. Look for little crunchy clusters if you're lucky. Looks good, tastes good, feels good - and drinks good with Cabernet. 2011 American Cheese Society Winner

The bold is mine - maybe this "prickly pineapple finish" = itchy lips?  I'm assuming they're meaning the cheese tends to make one's mouth feel like pineapple does?
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: booandbrimom on January 22, 2013, 09:35:37 AM
Cheese can contain histamines, which can cause a reaction that mimics allergy:

http://www.allergyuk.org/common-food-intolerances/histamine-intolerance

This would explain why it's just one cheese. Does she also get migraines? My son gets these and they can be triggered by high-histamine foods.

Perhaps there's a relationship to food allergies because these kids have a higher histamine level than the norm? Don't know that part.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 22, 2013, 09:44:22 AM
Hmm, interesting.  She does get migraines.  Well, she's had 3 of them, but she's only 10.  I wonder how the histamines get in cheeses?  Are they a byproduct of certain enzymes?
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: maeve on January 22, 2013, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: CMdeux on January 21, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
Yup.  XC.

Some cheeses-- especially specialty/artisanal types, may be "washed/cured/sealed" with different things during production, too-- so while I don't KNOW of a cheese that requires a walnut-based ingredient, that doesn't mean that there isn't one.  KWIM?

We recently ran across something that surprised the heck out of us-- DH pointed the label out to me, because I would NEVER have figured cheese to be a risk for almond XC, but it was.  Apparently some kind of "amaretto" wash during curing-- I'd heard of ports and stouts used that way, but never flavored liqueurs.  Well, you learn something new every day, I guess.

Also-- pistachios are a known risk because of that one kind of Italian cheese with them in it-- mortadella?  (ironic name, that)



I have to agree with this.  I believe that Gourmandise cheese is made with walnuts (at least a variety of it).  So depending on what type of artisanal cheese is being made, it's likely that it could be nut cross contamination. 

The other thought I had was the rennet used and sometimes albumin (egg) is added, so the reaction could be something other than milk or nuts.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: CMdeux on January 22, 2013, 10:39:48 AM
Quote from: aggiedog on January 22, 2013, 09:44:22 AM
Hmm, interesting.  She does get migraines.  Well, she's had 3 of them, but she's only 10.  I wonder how the histamines get in cheeses?  Are they a byproduct of certain enzymes?

Yes-- they are a natural byproduct of cheese production. 

Aged cheeses tend to have the highest histamine levels, since they are evidently a product of the aging process. 

Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: aggiedog on January 23, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Called the dairy.  Tarentaise and gruyere are considered "alpine cheeses" and are made similarly, and are both aged.  I am now suspecting the histamine issue, which is more common in these types of cheeses.  This particular tarentaise has a natural rind and is not rinsed/coated with anything. 

I'll try again if they get a new block, but I"m thinking histamine. Interesting about the migraines, too, since she is my only kid to get any kind of headaches.  She's had a couple I was very close to bringing her to the ER.  Just the fact that I knew what it was and that some nausea meds made it better kept us home.
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: LinksEtc on January 23, 2013, 04:16:52 PM
This is probably not what you're dealing with, but I guess it's worth posting ...

http://www.asthmaallergieschildren.com/2013/01/21/sometimes-the-answer-is-only-skin-deep/
Title: Re: Ack! Can't believe I have to post this - cheese allergy??
Post by: Macabre on January 23, 2013, 06:47:33 PM
Wow, that's a great link Links.  Penicillin in sausage skin. Who knew?  What a helpful site, too.  Thank you!