I remember reading on this board recently about the needle bending and they did not have a back up epi. I don`t recall what happened to the person. Today I was training the teacher, having her practice with an expired epi. I have never had anyone practice with the new design, because up until now I did not have any expired ones. I did not have any oranges, so I had her practice into a hot dog bun (had to be resourceful, it was pouring rain and I did not have time to get to the store). I watched her do it. She did it correctly. When she took the epi out of hot dog bun, the far part of the needle was bent. The rest of the needle I could not see, because it was covered by the orange thing. So if the needle bends at the end from being injected into a hot dog bun, isn`t it going to bend even more if injected into a person? I really hate this new design.
WOW.
That is really, really concerning, Carefulmom. :-[
Are you recalling the college student who died in Atlanta? There seemed to be a misfire or device malfunction involved in that fatality.
Will you contact Dey? This seems like something they should know about.
FWIW, I hate the new design, too, even after giving myself a year to get used to it. NOT liking it.
Which epi are you referring to?
Time to go prod my expired epis. Does anyone use Twinject? Right now I'm carrying a total of 5 epis in my purse (2 for each child, one for myself) I could conceivably drop it down to one adult Twinject, one pediatric Twinject and 2 epis.
That is concerning. I'm wondering if the teacher hit the table on the other side of the bun -- or whatever the bun was sitting on? Not nearly as much resistance with a bun as with an orange.
Just a thought.
It is the regular epipen, not twinject. Yes, I need to call Dey. Too busy with work today, plus I need to figure out who to call. I understand about needle sticks and wanting to prevent them, but isn`t it more important that it work correctly! I think with the orange thing coming out to cover the needle, it is just one more way for it to malfunction. What if the orange thing comes out too soon and covers the needle before the medicine has been fully injected?
Yes, CM Deux, it was the college student who died. I need to call Dey, but not the regular Customer Service phone number. When they came out with the new design, I called someone at Dey that was a professional---maybe it was someone in R and D. It will take a little while for me to get to the right person. I may have saved the name and phone number somewhere. I was just shocked to see the needle bent, having just read a few weeks ago about someone who had that happen during a reaction.
Quote from: GingerPye on October 05, 2011, 12:15:58 PM
That is concerning. I'm wondering if the teacher hit the table on the other side of the bun -- or whatever the bun was sitting on? Not nearly as much resistance with a bun as with an orange.
Just a thought.
No, I have the bun. The bun is thicker than the needle and the orange thing. It did not go all the way through. I have a couple of epis due to expire in a few months. Honestly I am so tempted to inject it in myself and look at the needle after, what little I can see of it. I won`t do that though. BTW, the click is very loud on the real one, louder than the trainer, just as it was with the old design.
I know, back a long time ago (9 years?), when I used the epi on DS, the needle came out at an angle. The part of the needle extending from the black tip was striaght, but it did not come out straight from the tip. I remember there being talk at the first place of others having that experience. Seems like the consensus (info from Dey?) was it wasn't anything to be concerned about. Sounds like yours might be a similar thing?
wow thats kinda scary! we have an expired set at home i'm going to buy some oranges and try them now. yikes
I am trying to imagine sticking it into a bun hard enough for it to click and have it not go all the way through the bun.
http://www.universitybusiness.com/article/when-food-can-kill (http://www.universitybusiness.com/article/when-food-can-kill)
This is the latest article on the GA college student who died. His needle bent which led to his death.
Quote from: Jessica on October 05, 2011, 06:45:20 PM
I am trying to imagine sticking it into a bun hard enough for it to click and have it not go all the way through the bun.
That's what I was wondering too. Was it a hard, stale bun? Otherwise, how would it release?
FWIW, DD has used epi 3 times over the past 9 months and none of them were bent. Scary to think that it can happen though! Please let us know what you find out.
Just to respond, I switched to Twinject when the new epi came out because I hated the new one. Love my Twinject. I love two doses at once, and I love having 4 doses with me at all times.
Quote from: Carefulmom on October 05, 2011, 12:21:32 PM
It is the regular epipen, not twinject. Yes, I need to call Dey. Too busy with work today, plus I need to figure out who to call. I understand about needle sticks and wanting to prevent them, but isn`t it more important that it work correctly! I think with the orange thing coming out to cover the needle, it is just one more way for it to malfunction. What if the orange thing comes out too soon and covers the needle before the medicine has been fully injected?
Yes, CM Deux, it was the college student who died. I need to call Dey, but not the regular Customer Service phone number. When they came out with the new design, I called someone at Dey that was a professional---maybe it was someone in R and D. It will take a little while for me to get to the right person. I may have saved the name and phone number somewhere. I was just shocked to see the needle bent, having just read a few weeks ago about someone who had that happen during a reaction.
The orange thing is a problem. When giving DS1 the epi last summer, I found that it creates a counter resistance that is very hard to offset...especially when dealing with a 3 year old who was FREAKING.OUT. M pushed at the epi immediately (note to self to have plan for limiting his access to thigh area for next time) and the entire needle bent to a 90 degree angle. He still has a 2-3 inch scar from the needle. It's also VERY hard (read impossible) to put the used BENT needle back in the case.
Yes, it was a stale hard bun. Otherwise she would not have been able to practice with it. It was the closest thing I had to an orange. Have not had time to call them, very busy with work. I need to wait until I have some uninterrupted time to get to the right person. And if the needle really had gone through to the desk underneath causing it to bend, that would not have been okay either. What if in injecting our child we get to the bone? Some of our kids don`t have much between their skin and their bones. Dd is 5 feet 1 and only weight 85 pounds. Almost no layers of tissue between her skin and her bone in her thigh.
I honestly don't mean to keep arguing, but it seems like even a hard bun would break into crumbs with the force of an epi. I may have to try it with an old pen (I have new style old pens).
Another mom on my local board said the same thing happened in an orange.
I am crying foul here - none of us have been happy with the new "improvements" made to the Epi pen. Maybe we need to start writing letters. Something has to be done before lifesaving medication kills anyone else.
I also switched to Twinject when EpiPen redesigned. Now I'm back to EpiPen. Apparently a lot of people switched; Twinject is not available in my area right now and is on backorder "indefinitely". I called at least a dozen pharmacies in the area and every single one said the smae thing. Unfortunately, this does not leave a lot of choice for those of us that need to carry something.
I really dislike the new design. I like it even less now after reading these kinds of stories.