Oh my. I can't seem to unsubscribe from their newsletter...so I get periodic things.
Wow. So, take benadryl before you go to a Thai restaurant, hoping to eat safely, so your bf canhave his special dinner.
TAKE BENADRYL BEFORE A RISKY/POSSIBLE EXPOSURE?!
http://www.peanutallergy.com/boards/adults-living-with-peanut-allergy/thai-food-and-peanut-allergy?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PeanutAllergy.com&utm_content=PA+Question+5 (http://www.peanutallergy.com/boards/adults-living-with-peanut-allergy/thai-food-and-peanut-allergy?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PeanutAllergy.com&utm_content=PA+Question+5)
Not sure if that link will work or not...
Adrienne
Ouch. Oh, that is such dangerous advice. :rant: :bonking:
I figured out a few years back that there was so much bad info over there in the past 4-5y that there was simply no way to combat it directly by answering questions.
It makes me really angry and sad, though, for people who can still see the OLD-old advice there and may assume a level of competence in management that (obviously!) no longer exists... (For anyone who doesn't know this-- the VAST majority of the people who were posting there between 1997-2006 are now either here, at KFA, neither, or both.)
:-[
PA.com kept our old posts as its own intellectual property (by depriving us of the ability to EDIT OUR POSTS), but there's a reason why so many of us bailed on that site.
lol @jiffycansuckit: awesome screen name
Take a benedryl before the Thai restaurant??? I don't go anywhere near Thai restaurants as there are peanuts everywhere.
Yes, we all bailed on pa.com as the owner was most concerned about making money for new cars and vacations and he refused to answer Becca's questions about where all the monetary donations were used except to keep talking about some ice cream facility that might be built a few decades from now at Saginaw, Texas (32.86 North / 97.35 West) ... northwest of Fort Worth, TX.
CMDeux: what is KFA? I never heard of that before.
Quote from: candyguru on July 28, 2013, 03:05:59 PM
CMDeux: what is KFA? I never heard of that before.
I believe it's Kids with Food Allergies.
Anyone else wonder if their official content is all manufactured? I guess we'll
know for sure if the next burning question is how to order a peanut buster parfait safely.
Quote from: twinturbo on July 28, 2013, 04:43:17 PM
Anyone else wonder if their official content is all manufactured? I guess we'll
know for sure if the next burning question is how to order a peanut buster parfait safely.
Yes, maybe they are still using those old Univacs in their modern hi tech computer centre to manufacture the content? Seriously speaking, there is so much risk going to a Thai restaurant, the guy should go someplace else if he values her safety.
Thanks SL, never heard of Kids with Food Allergies before which is interesting since I have kids with food allergies
It's the site formerly known as POFAK. ;)
In the sense sites are obtained and maintained in aggregate.
I saw that just now and thought the same thing. Scary.
That nuts. I saw the other replies first and they were good but the one from the site owners boggles e mind! I think someone should post there telling them how dangerous and wrong their advice is and letting them know they should be more careful so someone new to this doesn't take their advice and end up having a bad reaction or worse and so thy don't get sued.
I haven't been there in ages. So, I went looking around, and now I feel nauseous. I get car sick, boat sick, and apparently padotcom sick. :sick:
Seriously, remember part of the upset was that Chris hadn't updated the forum software in forever. Well, it's updated now....but what a horrible set-up.
I love our new-new home. :cocktail:
ETA: That's a cocktail. Lol. I thought it was a little flag waving guy.
Quote from: lakeswimr on July 29, 2013, 12:19:53 PM
That nuts. I saw the other replies first and they were good but the one from the site owners boggles e mind! I think someone should post there telling them how dangerous and wrong their advice is and letting them know they should be more careful so someone new to this doesn't take their advice and end up having a bad reaction or worse and so thy don't get sued.
In my mind...writing an answer with medical advice (...take a Benadryl first) by "not an M.D." Is a dangerous road to go down. The answer started out ok saying Thai is risky, but then I kept reading. I'd be concerned the benadryl could mask the 'warning signs' and some of the early symptoms of ingestion - Hives, bad taste in mouth, itchy lips - the ones I'm familiar with happening and it makes my alarm bells go off.
This is more of a question --- given benadryl won't stop anaphylaxis...but could help with other parts of the reaction like hives, itchy, swelling to an extent...so like, the dangerous bits like low blood pressure and throat suddenly swelling...the ones that kill...wouldn't they just seem to come out of nowhere?
Anyway, I haven't taken the iniative to go post there...I still can't get off the fracking mailing list.
Scary advice...geesh, is Jenny McCarthy posting on pa.com now?
Adrienne
I've asked our (highly competent) allergist that question before-- the answer is apparently not. That is, with a major reaction, you're going to get breakthrough symptoms even with the benadryl.
The problem, though, with a known/likely exposure like that is that the resultant reaction may be pretty severe anyway.
We've also found that the benadryl can induce drowsiness which is difficult to distinguish from the possible impact of cardiovascular symptoms in the earliest phase of development.
I know it's easier said than done but IMO CM in previous post is right: you can't battle the internet and whoever took over that domain may not have any allergy-specific goal in mind. If it was bought based on traffic it could be used as a feeder to draw in revenues from ads or traffic to other sites. Not long ago there was something there on how to deal with a milk reaction--the advice was to quickly rinse mouth out with water. It belies credulity that someone is actually at the helm there. Just because it bills itself as pa.com and used to have credible information generated by users doesn't mean that's what it is now, but, that's what the reputation may have been worth hence its value.
Didn't the child who somehow got fed allergens and got an itchy mouth at a school party get Benadryl and then his mother drove him to the hospital where he had no other symptoms until he suddenly stopped breathing and his heart stopped? He nearly died and was on life support but thankfully he recovered. The scary thing about that reaction is that by most plans or many he would not get the epi pen. E was very lucky to have been in the ER when he was. Did Benadryl make early symptoms that would have warned the reaction was continuing and spreading inside? Could he had had things like extensive hives and itchiness without it ? My sons allergist warns Benadryl can mask early symptoms. FAANs official line was that with Ana symptoms will appear over the Benadryl. From reading elsewhere it seems allergists are split 50:50 on whether to give Benadryl first for mild do tons. My sons allergist is not alone in his advice, though. I think and I think my sons allergist would agree that usually Benadryl won't make any difference but sometimes you could fail to get n earlier heads up theist the reaction is spreading inside.
We would only need to convince the writer of the danger of their advice once, not reply I every thread. I honk given there are newbies and that people could die from this bad advice it is worth trying to write to them.
There is always their FB page to reply at or link to their mistaken info . . . and then "comment" away. Likely, that would get more eyes-on.
KWIM?
Just sayin'.
Oh, I didn't know that !
Has anyone seen this latest article?
http://www.peanutallergy.com/articles/peanut-allergy/epinephrine-overdose (http://www.peanutallergy.com/articles/peanut-allergy/epinephrine-overdose)
says to contact a doctor before using a 2nd dose. What if someone is 30 minutes away from a hospital and it's after hours. What are the odds of getting in touch with a doctor on the way to the ER so you can get permission OVER THE PHONE (would they be able to tell over the phone whether or not it's safe to use a 2nd dose??) to take another dose. Ain't nobody got time for that.
:disappointed:
yeah, the time to discuss a second dose (or a third... or a fourth...) is when you're hammering out an action plan with your doc.
:-/
i know, i finally asked them to remove me from their email list. some of the crap i was getting from them was just that. CRAP.
The person who wrote the article is not a medical professional at all. Doesn't even cite sources. So damn irresponsible. :(
I still say it's become content farming to drive traffic.
Yup.
Pisses me off that the old content FROM US and history (to include OT) was lost . . . none of the links in threads work (to other threads there) so that many conversations are useless.
Pisses me off.
I'm curious how you think people should be advised who are likely to make bad decisions? Everyone here is here because they aim for zero reactions, but not everyone with allergy, especially adults, manages risk that way and they are not necessarily being advised to zero out their risk by experts, including doctors. I don't feel now like I can personally asses whether my allergies are more serious or less serious but I have done that in the past and taken bizarre risks that ended up OK. It all served to reinforce my idea that I could successfully manage contact with my allergens with little risk. A long time ago, before I ever developed food allergies, a friend told me about their friend who was allergic to tree nuts. She would eat a nut candy once a year or so when she could not stand the denial anymore and just jab herself with the Epi. I thought that was crazy then and I knew next to nothing about food allergies, and it's an extreme example, but I'm amazed at how reckless folks are. Someone recently told me about a relative who is now actually cognitively impaired from having too many anaphylactic incidents. From that perspective, minimizing the risk of going to a Thai restaurant with peanut allergy by taking certain precautions as recommended in the column may make sense for some personalities (never mind that a website should never be handing out medical advice like that which is an absolutely true point). Even if you look at the advice and scenarios often presented in allergy magazines like Living Without, the message is often given that adults can be pretty cavalier and be just fine. I guess it's like anything else in public health - there is risk reduction that works better with some people than in others and the question is what level of alarm will reach people the best?
" The effects of the injection usually wear off within 10 to 20 minutes. Patients are advised to seek immediate medical attention within this timeframe.
To avoid the risk of an overdose, do not repeat doses of epinephrine without contacting a doctor. "
===================================================================
hmm... so you have a severe reaction and use an epi-pen... 10 mins pass by, the ambulance hasn't arrived, the epi-pen is wearing off, and you can't reach your doctor as it is after hours..
so you are not supposed to use your 2nd epi-pen?
bad advice! :insane:
Paramedics here are only allowed to give two doses. If patient has self-administered, then they can only give one dose. If patient has given two doses, then paramedics cannot give any. However, they can monitor the patient (bp) and speak to someone at the hospital who can tell them to give a third.
I would want to be in consultation with a doctor before administering a second dose. To a person with no training, it is possible to mistake symptoms, and to much epi can be a risk.
However, HOW that is said is very important. And each indivuals should speak to their own doctor in advance
All instruction I have heard is to administer again in 5 minutes if no improvement. That is in our plan.
Right-- and this is why it is something that SHOULD be determined in advance with a physician.
Someone with severe anaphylaxis Hx is going to be treating aggressively rather than conservatively in that situation because the risk-benefit calculation is quite different for that person.
@jschwab. I'm not sure I'm answering your question, I'm not sure there's a centralized question in there. This may or may not be satisfactory.
You ask what we here at FAS (is that correct?) think what someone else should do. That's not a perspective I share. What I find in my experience here at FAS is support from a group that is extremely well versed in both the history of well documented conventional knowledge of IgE-mediated allergies and what is on the bleeding edge of where treatment is going. Many of those here operate by considerable experience, advisement and/or guidance from some of the leaders of immunology research and treatment; rely mainly on published articles (as opposed to op-eds) in well respected journals (not magazines); Code of Federal Regulations, legal decisions, settlements, and agreements; and last but not least hard bought experience. Some of us find our past industry experience is applicable to anaphylaxis management directly or indirectly in the most surprising ways.
I've found that management for an infant, for a special needs toddler, for a young developing boy or girl, for a tween, for a teen, all is different than me as an adult. I've also read enough hard data from enough credible sources to recognize that, as allergen agnostic as I am with so many confirmed allergens that are of clinical significance to my kids, that not all allergens are created equal. That some proteins are more durable, come in a form factor that are more easily spread to contaminate, are much less likely to ever be outgrown, have a significantly higher mortality rate, and have some of the lowest dosages to elicit reactions.
I also know that insurance companies aren't always sympathetic to years of paying $2k plus for every reaction--and that's minimal ambulance plus 4-6 hour stay. And I know even then I'm lucky to be insured in the first place. I know that parents are barely able to work in some cases dealing with school nonsense.
It's a personal decision to eat your allergen in the privacy of your own home. It's a personal decision to eat a food highly contaminated with an extremely potent allergen with a high mortality rate. It's also an extreme disservice for a content farm website for the sake of increasing traffic to publish such horribly dangerous misinformation that is likely to put an individual at higher risk under the guise of "medical advice", especially when it intersects with social pressure from a loved one at developmental ages more prone to that social pressure.
We respect each other's comfort zones, the dynamic factors we must each put in our risk-reward calculus. Unfortunately there is not much traction in this branch of medicine and because its acceptance in the public eye is more closely related to a lifestyle model than disease, our Achilles heel has been co-opted successfully to the point of obscuring IgE-mediation. What does allergy mean? Why is it important? Why must we adhere to standards? Because total avoidance is our only prescriptive choice. There is no high tech answer, nothing to mediate per instance.
I think you'll find why that torch is carried so vigilantly from person to person within a well-read support group who see Sicherer, Wood, Burks, and are more likely to read their research rather than only read what blurbs a magazine author brings into print. With all due respect to the docs I'm more than bleepin' ready to go back to a carefree lifestyle. Give me something else besides total strict avoidance.
In all this I also think we all realize to a certain degree we occupy the bad spot on the bell curve, the area that isn't often studied due to severity. Besides sucking mightily we will be the first ones to tell anyone that was done disservice by a naturopath or IgG or sloppy testing that before they try to live in strict avoidance make sure you actually are allergic. No history, bad testing, eats allergen all the time. Congrats!
As to what individuals should be doing on their own I highly doubt anyone is in great need to judge. What nonsense rears up vying for credibility then dishes out horrible 'medical' advice under a banner that supposedly represents us as a group? Yeah, gonna call bullcrap in response.
+1^
and applause, tyvm. :smooch:
I love Twinturbo so much.
Quote from: Macabre on November 05, 2013, 08:12:12 AM
All instruction I have heard is to administer again in 5 minutes if no improvement. That is in our plan.
I believe there are also directions to re-administer if symptoms recur.
My daughter needed two epi pen jr injections (20 mins apart) when she had her severe reaction to lentils. That is the only time 2 doses were needed in our experience. Plus when arriving at the ER she was hooked up to an IV. A severe allergic reaction is more scary to me than a second epi pen jr injection. Life is difficult and stressful with young kids when things happen... not surprised I am getting grey hairs this past year.
tt. That post is sublime.
Candyguru, was she in hospital or ambulance when she got the second? Or did you have to administer?
(Just thinking, in twenty minutes the ambulance should be there. If not, we have a problem here.)
We live more than 20 minutes drive from a hospital. Even at high speed.
CG does not.
My question was not I reference to whether he should have administered to, but rather whether he was required to do it.
ETA: many doctors recommend a person carry two. While there is a risk of a misfire, the main reason to have two is in case you need two, isn't it.
Quote from: twinturbo on November 05, 2013, 10:37:12 AM
@jschwab. I'm not sure I'm answering your question, I'm not sure there's a centralized question in there. This may or may not be satisfactory.
You ask what we here at FAS (is that correct?) think what someone else should do. That's not a perspective I share. What I find in my experience here at FAS is support from a group that is extremely well versed in both the history of well documented conventional knowledge of IgE-mediated allergies and what is on the bleeding edge of where treatment is going. Many of those here operate by considerable experience, advisement and/or guidance from some of the leaders of immunology research and treatment; rely mainly on published articles (as opposed to op-eds) in well respected journals (not magazines); Code of Federal Regulations, legal decisions, settlements, and agreements; and last but not least hard bought experience. Some of us find our past industry experience is applicable to anaphylaxis management directly or indirectly in the most surprising ways.
I've found that management for an infant, for a special needs toddler, for a young developing boy or girl, for a tween, for a teen, all is different than me as an adult. I've also read enough hard data from enough credible sources to recognize that, as allergen agnostic as I am with so many confirmed allergens that are of clinical significance to my kids, that not all allergens are created equal. That some proteins are more durable, come in a form factor that are more easily spread to contaminate, are much less likely to ever be outgrown, have a significantly higher mortality rate, and have some of the lowest dosages to elicit reactions.
I also know that insurance companies aren't always sympathetic to years of paying $2k plus for every reaction--and that's minimal ambulance plus 4-6 hour stay. And I know even then I'm lucky to be insured in the first place. I know that parents are barely able to work in some cases dealing with school nonsense.
It's a personal decision to eat your allergen in the privacy of your own home. It's a personal decision to eat a food highly contaminated with an extremely potent allergen with a high mortality rate. It's also an extreme disservice for a content farm website for the sake of increasing traffic to publish such horribly dangerous misinformation that is likely to put an individual at higher risk under the guise of "medical advice", especially when it intersects with social pressure from a loved one at developmental ages more prone to that social pressure.
We respect each other's comfort zones, the dynamic factors we must each put in our risk-reward calculus. Unfortunately there is not much traction in this branch of medicine and because its acceptance in the public eye is more closely related to a lifestyle model than disease, our Achilles heel has been co-opted successfully to the point of obscuring IgE-mediation. What does allergy mean? Why is it important? Why must we adhere to standards? Because total avoidance is our only prescriptive choice. There is no high tech answer, nothing to mediate per instance.
I think you'll find why that torch is carried so vigilantly from person to person within a well-read support group who see Sicherer, Wood, Burks, and are more likely to read their research rather than only read what blurbs a magazine author brings into print. With all due respect to the docs I'm more than bleepin' ready to go back to a carefree lifestyle. Give me something else besides total strict avoidance.
In all this I also think we all realize to a certain degree we occupy the bad spot on the bell curve, the area that isn't often studied due to severity. Besides sucking mightily we will be the first ones to tell anyone that was done disservice by a naturopath or IgG or sloppy testing that before they try to live in strict avoidance make sure you actually are allergic. No history, bad testing, eats allergen all the time. Congrats!
As to what individuals should be doing on their own I highly doubt anyone is in great need to judge. What nonsense rears up vying for credibility then dishes out horrible 'medical' advice under a banner that supposedly represents us as a group? Yeah, gonna call bullcrap in response.
My question was more rhetorical than anything else. I think I was just trying to puzzle out on paper whether the advice was actually as irresponsible as it seems, given common medical understanding of the issue and what the real world looks like for most people who may not have all the resources (discipline, intellectual, family support, access to information and care) that those who are most careful in their management can be. There are so many areas in public health where compliance is a huge factor in staying well, but where most people and most experts recognize that 100% compliance is not always going to happen. I was not really being critical of anyone taking issue with the article. I was more trying to figure out if the article more accurately reflects common understanding of how allergies should be handled when strict compliance is tough for people. I myself have given similar advice to people who I knew were going to take chances anyway, KWIM? I literally have no idea what most people are told about managing their allergies in the real world so I was kind of curious if this was being criticized from the perspective of a stricter standard for compliance or was actually in direct contravention to standard medical advice. I think you answered that very well. Thanks.
Quote from: SilverLining on November 05, 2013, 10:17:38 PM
CG does not.
My question was not I reference to whether he should have administered to, but rather whether he was required to do it.
ETA: many doctors recommend a person carry two. While there is a risk of a misfire, the main reason to have two is in case you need two, isn't it.
Not to mention that I'm not even sure you can buy singles anymore. Aren't they always sold in twin packs these days?
Quote from: SilverLining on November 05, 2013, 09:03:01 PM
Candyguru, was she in hospital or ambulance when she got the second? Or did you have to administer?
(Just thinking, in twenty minutes the ambulance should be there. If not, we have a problem here.)
The ambulance arrived within about 6 minutes (we had already given her an epi-pen before they arrived). We arrived at North York General, and they gave her another shot (they did not use our epi pen Jr) when we arrived as she needed it (weakness, lower blood pressure, stomach ache, breathing issues).
So the second injection was given in the ER, but had we been outside the city, and more than 20 mins from an ambulance, I would have given the second epi pen even if we could not have reached a doctor to ask, as I have always been informed that an epi pen may wear off in 15 to 20 mins and symptoms could intensify.
Quote from: Jessica on November 05, 2013, 11:40:26 PM
Quote from: SilverLining on November 05, 2013, 10:17:38 PM
CG does not.
My question was not I reference to whether he should have administered to, but rather whether he was required to do it.
ETA: many doctors recommend a person carry two. While there is a risk of a misfire, the main reason to have two is in case you need two, isn't it.
Not to mention that I'm not even sure you can buy singles anymore. Aren't they always sold in twin packs these days?
They've never been sold in twin packs here.
Quote from: candyguru on November 06, 2013, 12:43:48 AM
Quote from: SilverLining on November 05, 2013, 09:03:01 PM
Candyguru, was she in hospital or ambulance when she got the second? Or did you have to administer?
(Just thinking, in twenty minutes the ambulance should be there. If not, we have a problem here.)
The ambulance arrived within about 6 minutes (we had already given her an epi-pen before they arrived). We arrived at North York General, and they gave her another shot (they did not use our epi pen Jr) when we arrived as she needed it (weakness, lower blood pressure, stomach ache, breathing issues).
So the second injection was given in the ER, but had we been outside the city, and more than 20 mins from an ambulance, I would have given the second epi pen even if we could not have reached a doctor to ask, as I have always been informed that an epi pen may wear off in 15 to 20 mins and symptoms could intensify.
I'm not at all questioning whether it would have been appropriate for you to give a second dose yourself.
I was just wanting to be sure the ambulance arrived that quick...because I know they should have.
Last year when I had a reaction to sesame the ambulance came within 5 minutes. I was at the hospital my 15 I think. They gave me a second Epi dose as a matter of course. And as they were preparing it, I started to go downhill. Then they gave it and I was fine.
I told DS' teachers on his recent trip that if he has a reaction on the airplane and he has to administer the Epi to give a second Epi 15 minutes later (assuming they'd be making an emergency landing). And if he starts to react again before he is in the care of EMS, to use a third.
Mine have always come in two packs. I started carrying two after this most recent (and worst) episode. The EMT's told me that it was not an allergic reaction but an anxiety attack and were very disdainful and angry about transporting me - they did not really examine me, in fact, even though I told them I had had the injection (I thought they were supposed to check vitals and all, at least?). That severely reduced my faith in paramedics' ability to treat appropriately if I'd relapsed. I would always want to have a second dose to self-administer even though services here are very close (I can literally walk to the ER in less than 20 minutes which I probably should have done instead). I don't even know if they carry them in ambulances here? My symptoms have not traditionally been anything but respiratory so whatever other classic signs they were looking for, they were not going to find. The ER was great when my symptoms returned and were on it right away, but I don't trust rescue personnel to figure it out. They just had no understanding of how the epinephrine works and that you can look fine for a little bit and then suddenly not be fine. If I'm just out bike riding and don't plan to ingest anything, I will take one, but generally I always carry two now.
Quote
I can literally walk to the ER in less than 20 minutes which I probably should have done instead)
You
do know that isn't really a good idea, right? Exercise + allergic reaction = horrible cascade of escalating events. :)
I second your experience of having EMT's and other first-responders (including ER nurses) not recognize non-cutaneous anaphylaxis symptoms-- we've seen that several times.
If you haven't looked up asthma as anaphylaxis yet, jschwab, I really encourage you to read through some of that information. We have a great collection of articles and several threads on the subject. It's
really important to be well-educated on that subject if you're prone to those kinds of reactions from food, because you may be the ONLY person who understands that you're not just experiencing an asthma attack that you can't control with asthma meds.
Quote from: CMdeux on November 06, 2013, 09:49:17 AM
Quote
I can literally walk to the ER in less than 20 minutes which I probably should have done instead)
You do know that isn't really a good idea, right? Exercise + allergic reaction = horrible cascade of escalating events. :)
I second your experience of having EMT's and other first-responders (including ER nurses) not recognize non-cutaneous anaphylaxis symptoms-- we've seen that several times.
If you haven't looked up asthma as anaphylaxis yet, jschwab, I really encourage you to read through some of that information. We have a great collection of articles and several threads on the subject. It's really important to be well-educated on that subject if you're prone to those kinds of reactions from food, because you may be the ONLY person who understands that you're not just experiencing an asthma attack that you can't control with asthma meds.
Yes, I realize that would be dumb to walk :P. I was just making a point about just how close it is but why I still think it's important to carry two pens for myself, despite that. It's about 5 minutes in a vehicle. I did not think about first responders not being able to distinguish between asthma and anaphylaxis but that is a good thing to be aware of - thanks for pointing that out. I don't have asthma in my family so I don't actually know what a full blown asthma attack looks like (a girl just died from one in the schools here, though - so sad). I carry an Epi and no asthma medicine so I would hope that would be a signal about what was really going on. I finally ordered a bracelet to put a point on it which I would hope would help, too. The next reaction I had from almonds included the full-on hives and nausea so things might be changing somewhat for me, too...
Quote from: SilverLining on November 06, 2013, 06:42:12 AM
Quote from: candyguru on November 06, 2013, 12:43:48 AM
Quote from: SilverLining on November 05, 2013, 09:03:01 PM
Candyguru, was she in hospital or ambulance when she got the second? Or did you have to administer?
(Just thinking, in twenty minutes the ambulance should be there. If not, we have a problem here.)
The ambulance arrived within about 6 minutes (we had already given her an epi-pen before they arrived). We arrived at North York General, and they gave her another shot (they did not use our epi pen Jr) when we arrived as she needed it (weakness, lower blood pressure, stomach ache, breathing issues).
So the second injection was given in the ER, but had we been outside the city, and more than 20 mins from an ambulance, I would have given the second epi pen even if we could not have reached a doctor to ask, as I have always been informed that an epi pen may wear off in 15 to 20 mins and symptoms could intensify.
I'm not at all questioning whether it would have been appropriate for you to give a second dose yourself.
I was just wanting to be sure the ambulance arrived that quick...because I know they should have.
yes, we have called an ambulance about 4 times now... and each time it has arrived in about 5-8 minutes. The fire department usually arrives first in less than 5 minutes (an advantage of living in the city (near Yonge Street) as you are not far from the fire station or paramedics.. plus the hospital is just down the street)