I have a meeting in two weeks to discuss changes to my daughter's upcoming class field trip to a pioneer lodge. The lodge is a one-room building, it's a daylong field trip, and one of the central activities is preparing and cooking a meal that includes eggy dishes. I talked to my daughter's allergist and he was adamant that the trip would not be safe for her for a number of reasons: She can't handle eggs, of course, she shouldn't be around foods that are being cooked with egg in them, and the lodge is 40 minutes away from the children's hospital where she'd be treated if she were to anaphylax. He said that for her, given her history of reactions and most recent bloodwork (which stunk), she shouldn't go. I shared his concerns with her principal and the rest of her 504 team, and they do seem open to suggestion. They're not making any promises, but they said they want to work with us. But the more I think about what I could propose, the less comfortable I feel about the food element of this trip. Because of the potential for cross-contamination, even if I were to bring boxes of egg replacer for the other menu items, I'd need to supply mixing bowls, baking dishes and pans, as well as utensils, serving spoons, etc. Is that something I should offer to do? Three classes will be there at once, so that's 75-ish children. That's a lot of dishes and utensils. How far would you go to preserve the food element of a field trip like this? Do I lobby for the removal of food altogether? The bottom line for me is that she has to be safe. I don't want to keep her at home that day, I think that's wrong on so many levels, particularly since this is a day of school, tied in to their curriculum, etc. What would you all ask for in this meeting? Thanks!!
Me, I'd pick my battles. This can backfire in that she can be kept at school with a days' worth of worksheets tied to the curriculum, which is not going to be fun for her. But the school would be keeping her safe and she'd be learning the curriculum- that's likely the route they will take with this.
Don't offer to provide stuff for 75 children. That is too messy and complicated. And it will put you in the position of having to do it again down the road for some other trip.
If it were ME, I'd likely lobby for pulling her out of school that day, but have it not count against her attendance, and taking her yourself on some sort of field trip that ties to the curriculum. That way, she's not sitting at school doing worksheets. (unless you are ok with that as an option for her) Perhaps she can do some report on your field trip as evidence of learning for the school.
I pulled ds out of elem school every Halloween bc I didn't want to deal with the food fest and we'd do a field trip of some sorts. It counted against his attendance, but that wasn't important to me. Having him not in school that day was my goal and we always had such fun doing our own thing that day (a lot of times we flew to GA to visit my dad when the Halloween parties were on a Friday or a Monday).
Call the pioneer lodge. Don't signal to the school you're doing it--yet.
Call, talk to someone in charge ask if you can stick to bread, cheese, whole fruits, canning, making a pie (sans eggs), heck, for DD she can even do nuts, right? But get it straight from whomever is responsible for the pioneer lodge.
It won't be safe for her to consume but lowered risk to be around. At that point you could tackle who is the adult(s) assigned to her medical detail. But first feel it out all for eggs ANYWHERE there including a hen house maybe they farm eggs there or who knows. If it were me I'd make a run out there in person. I'd also use Google maps to locate the nearest fire stations, noting total number and distance.
I'm guessing this is somewhere west of the Adirondacks/Appalachains? Because east of that we do the pilgrim thing not pioneer.
Thanks for the excellent suggestions. I have already mapped it out and it's 20 minutes from the nearest firehouse, though that firehouse serves two townships, so I am not sure I'd rely on them being there or being particularly close. We would be 30-40 minutes from our children's hospital, depending on traffic. I would be there with a bonanza of Epi pens and her inhaler, but being more than two Epis away, potentially, worries me.
They don't have a farm there, this is literally just a lodge/rental facility owned by the town. I've seen pictures of the event last year and all of the kids were in the same room, with different corners of the room dedicated to the different activities. The food station was set up on long tables that bisected the room. They prepare several different dishes. We discussed the field trip briefly at our 504 planning meeting at the start of the school year and they didn't have a lot of specifics, but the school nurse said that in years past, the kids have gotten to grind corn to make some sort of cornbread that included eggs, as well as some sort of baked pudding that included eggs. Of course, eggy pudding. :P
I also neglected to mention that the PTO is a co-sponsor of the event. Yep, the PTO is involved in planning a part of the curriculum. The PTO hierarchy (matriarchy?) features many women who fought passionately against the food policy changes in our district three years ago. Two of them led a letter-writing campaign, which was fascinatingly anachronistic. I've already told the school principal that I do not want the PTO involved in any way in the discussion we'll have about possible changes. The last thing I need are the cupcake ladies getting their righteous indignation on when it comes to Pioneer Day. But they would be there, leading all of the activities.
Oh, and yes, we're west of the Adirondacks, so this is pioneers as opposed to pilgrims. Though I am still skeptical that many pioneers got to eat beef stew and baked goods on a regular basis.
Thanks for your great suggestions, as always! I will call the lodge tomorrow to see what I can find out about the food. The nuclear option, of course, is that she just doesn't go. And thanks for the warning about the worksheets! I could see that happening here. Nope, we'd do something else in the pioneer spirit that day, I suppose. Though I hate to have her miss an entire day of school.
Right, so calling direct gets you past the gatekeepers. I think that will be most telling and possibly (in this case) the most responsive. The school and PTO are too emo about this.
EAmom, when talking to the lodge program manager can you ask for specific street address or coordinates? Something tangible to pipe in to EMS if needed? Otherwise your cell signal slings off the nearest tower for your location. Also inquire if there's a landline on premise. The landline would be more identifiable to location efforts.
If I had to I'd look at a halfway point to meet EMS like book it to the nearest fire station manned at that time after meds administration. They can't override dispatch to transport someone showing up at the door but they will call in themselves to dispatch and stabilize a patient until transport arrives. BTDT when my youngest anaphylaxed next to a fire station which are normal parts of my activity planning. Sad but that's our life.
Of course I'd never advocate veering from your dr's EAP, so FWIW.
TT, your response made me realize just how lucky we'd been with my DD in terms of her reactions. When it happened at school, the nurse Epi'd my DD and called the paramedics and they were there two minutes later. We arrived at Children's fifteen minutes after that, just as the first Epi was wearing off. With her reactions prior to that, I was able to Epi her and get her to the closest ER, which is four minutes from our house. What you've described is more complex. So this is my rookie, kid's-always-ana'd-near-a-hospital question. What can the paramedics do to stabilize the child long enough to get them to the ER? Do they carry epinephrine? Would they start an IV, or would they administer another one of her Epi pens and treat any asthma symptoms? I guess I should call the fire department and ask how they'd handle that situation, given the location of this place?
Well, some of what I say was info I came by through job training and function prior to FA, most of it is useless but some is applicable. Anyhow, it would be smart to email someone at FD that could give you the nitty gritty details. Email makes it more convenient for them to answer and gives you a record of answer. Make sure of who is able to administer pediatric epinephrine in your state.
Regarding IV, if you tell them she's had biphasic before I can almost guarantee they'll IV her in the truck. What adjunctive? I'm not sure beyond IV Benadryl, oxygen, but they can measure the internal stuff like BP, O2 sat.
We've been in remote places before (40 min down a windy road to the hospital). The allergist gave us a rx for the liquid steroids that would be used in the ER with dosage that would be equivalent to what is used in the Hospital too.
Basically, the dr's orders for those trips are Epi, call 911, and pour liquid steroids down his throat to buy enough time to get to the hospital...With the assumption of a second Epi in the ambulance if need be.... It used to be that we live, not all ambulances have crews who can administer. They get around it by wrapping the patients hand around the Epi so that the patient is technically self administer. I'm not sure how it is now for that though.
Anyway, if we are not in a metro area, we have liquid steroids with us to use after the Epi. I'm grateful I haven't needed to use them.
Oh the PTO. You meant cupcake queens right? Not ladies. No, not ladies.
funny how when the PTO gets involved in things the food comes flying out!
I wouldnot be comfortable with this trip, would likely take my child out of school with letter of understanding and language about exclusion etc.
I just got off the phone with the fire captain, who was really nice. Long story short, they can't guarantee a response time under 15 minutes. Best case scenario, they could be there in ten minutes. But if both squads are on another call, or there's a housefire somewhere (they respond as far as two towns away), then it could be longer before they'd get there. They do carry IV epinephrine, benadryl, oxygen, all of the monitors they'd need to watch her BP and breathing, etc, but he said that he thinks people need to understand that he can't guarantee a response time because there are too many variables. So there it is. I'm calling the principal now. I figured it would be nice to let them know now, rather than wait until the meeting.
Well, that seals the deal, doesn't it? I bet you can come up with en equally awesome field trip.
This should not count as an absence.
Well, the principal was very nice and floated several ideas, none of which would work because of cross-contamination or because it would mean effectively putting a big "FA" on my kid's chest for the duration of the field trip. I take her at her word that they only want what's best for my daughter, I really do think she's sincere about that and she sure as hell was a lot more cooperative than the principal I had to deal with after the ana episode, but she did say that this year there will be several children who can't participate in the cooking element of the field trip because of either food allergies or cultural issues. So why do it, then? Why continue with an activity that is unsafe/unfair to several kids in the grade? The answer, of course, is that because they've ALWAYS done it that way, that it's a time-honored tradition in the district, yada yada. Yuck. The principal agreed that one option would be for us to keep her at home and do our own pioneer lesson, so that's what we'll do.
That is so sad.
Yes, I would make a great big ol' FUN pioneer lesson for your child. Is there another place you could visit that would have a similar pioneer theme?
Invite those other FA kids to do it with you, lol.
Meaning principal is scared of PTO which gives not a fig about cultural or medical issues.
Maybe the others are interested in dedicating that day to learning about first peoples both then and now.
If I were in your situation, given where I live now, I would make a Laura Ingalls Wilder pilgrimage to learn about that pioneer. (Ha--got both pilgrim and pioneer in there.)
Growing up in Texas, I didn't hear either term applied to anything local. We did talk about the frontier and exploration.
Quote from: twinturbo on October 15, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Meaning principal is scared of PTO which gives not a fig about cultural or medical issues.
Maybe the others are interested in dedicating that day to learning about first peoples both then and now.
Yes, I think that's a good read on the situation. That's a good idea to try to organize an alternative field trip. There are plenty of options around here.
PTO/504 regulations in case you need it down the road.
[spoiler]Here's one OCR investigation and ruling (Letter of Findings) regarding PTA sponsored events.
Irvine Unified School District, 19 IDELR 883 (OCR 1993) (http://www.diabetes.org/assets/pdfs/know-your-rights/for-lawyers/education/atty-irvine-ocr-lof.pdf) "Sigificant Assistance" would be our friend here.
QuoteInasmuch as the Club is not a program of the District, but is operated by a private organization, the PTA, the District does not have a direct obligation to provide the service itself under Section 504 or Title II. The program operator, the PTA of Orange County, therefore is not a recipient of Federal financial assistance and is not a public entity. OCR has no jurisdiction over the PTA. However, the regulations implementing Section 504 and Title II prohibit the District from providing significant assistance to any agency, organization or person that discriminates on the basis of disability. OCR therefore explored whether the District was providing significant assistance to the PTA and if so, whether the failure of the Club to provide the services discriminated against A.
Significant Assistance
Departmental interpretations of 34 C.F.R. ? 104.4(b)(1)(v) indicate that the following considerations should be examined to determine whether a recipient is providing "significant assistance" to a private group: (1) direct financial support; (2) indirect financial support; (3) provision of tangible resources such as staff and materials; (4) intangible benefits such as the lending of recognition and approval; (5) the selectivity of the recipient's provision of privileges and resources; and (6) whether the relationship is occasional and temporary or permanent and long-term. OCR examined to what extent these factors were present in the relationship between the District and the PTA Club program.
The District does not fund or subsidize any of the program's staff, and District staff do not appear to play a formal role in the operation of the program. The teachers involved are not paid for their participation in the Club by the District but rather by the organization. OCR found no direct provision of financial or staffing resources.
However, OCR did find evidence of significant indirect assistance. Based on a review of District documents and interviews with PTA and District personnel, OCR found that the Club program is located in permanent school buildings. It is not disputed that the program is housed on a District site on a permanent and long-term basis. A copy of the "Application and Permit for Use of School Facilities" shows that the provider uses "playing fields and classrooms" at the College Park Elementary School site.
The facilities-use form shows that the District has not charged the PTA a fee for the use of the facilities at the School. The PTA acknowledges that it does not pay a facilities-use fee to the District. In addition the District pays the utility and maintenance costs.
Additionally, the PTA advertises its program to parents by furnishing leaflets to students at the school site; the students then distribute them to parents. The College Park Press, a school newsletter advertises the Sunshine Club program. While the District does not operate the Club program, the Club program is closely identified with the District and benefits from that identification.
OCR finds that the District provides significant assistance to the PTA Sunshine Club program at the College Park Elementary School. The District has a substantial relationship with the program. While the District does not provide direct financial support or staff, it provides indirect financial support as well as assistance to the programs in a number of other ways. The facts meet the standards for finding significant assistance.
A refresher on the definitions of
recipient and
Federal financial assistance.
Quote(f) Recipient means any state or its political subdivision, any instrumentality of a state or its political subdivision, any public or private agency, institution, organization, or other entity, or any person to which Federal financial assistance is extended directly or through another recipient, including any successor, assignee, or transferee of a recipient, but excluding the ultimate beneficiary of the assistance.
(g) Applicant for assistance means one who submits an application, request, or plan required to be approved by a Department official or by a recipient as a condition to becoming a recipient.
(h) Federal financial assistance means any grant, loan, contract (other than a procurement contract or a contract of insurance or guaranty), or any other arrangement by which the Department provides or otherwise makes available assistance in the form of:
(1) Funds;
(2) Services of Federal personnel; or
(3) Real and personal property or any interest in or use of such property, including:
(i) Transfers or leases of such property for less than fair market value or for reduced consideration; and
(ii) Proceeds from a subsequent transfer or lease of such property if the Federal share of its fair market value is not returned to the Federal Government.
(i) Facility means all or any portion of buildings, structures, equipment, roads, walks, parking lots, or other real or personal property or interest in such property.
Here we go. 34 C.F.R. Part 104.4(b)(1)(v) that the case refers to, in bold.
Quote104.4 Discrimination prohibited.
(a) General. No qualified handicapped person shall, on the basis of handicap, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or otherwise be subjected to discrimination under any program or activitiy which receives Federal financial assistance.
(b) Discriminatory actions prohibited. (1) A recipient, in providing any aid, benefit, or service, may not, directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, on the basis of handicap:
(i) Deny a qualified handicapped person the opportunity to participate in or benefit from the aid, benefit, or service;
(ii) Afford a qualified handicapped person an opportunity to participate in or benefit from the aid, benefit, or service that is not equal to that afforded others;
(iii) Provide a qualified handicapped person with an aid, benefit, or service that is not as effective as that provided to others;
(iv) Provide different or separate aid, benefits, or services to handicapped persons or to any class of handicapped persons unless such action is necessary to provide qualified handicapped persons with aid, benefits, or services that are as effective as those provided to others;
(v) Aid or perpetuate discrimination against a qualified handicapped person by providing significant assistance to an agency, organization, or person that discriminates on the basis of handicap in providing any aid, benefit, or service to beneficiaries of the recipients program or activity;
[/spoiler]
I doubt we're in the same state (and feel free to not disclose) but sometimes college campuses offer great resources for kids. I take mine here (http://natural-history.uoregon.edu).
Thanks for the 504/PTO material, TT. That is very good to know, as I'm sure this will come up again.
And unfortunately, no, we don't live near that museum. It looks fantastic. But we do have good museums here, and an amazing one an hour and a half away. We may go up there, since we'll have the whole day. ;)
Quote from: Macabre on October 15, 2013, 10:52:05 AM
If I were in your situation, given where I live now, I would make a Laura Ingalls Wilder pilgrimage to learn about that pioneer. (Ha--got both pilgrim and pioneer in there.)
Growing up in Texas, I didn't hear either term applied to anything local. We did talk about the frontier and exploration.
My daughter loves the Laura Ingalls Wilder books. My Mom is from Minnesota so I've been to Minneapolis several times, but I've never done a trip to Walnut Grove. That would be fun.
I passed through Sleepy Eye to get to Mankato (real places sooooooo cool) for a performance of Legally Blonde: The Musical. Pa and Mr. Edwards were nowhere in sight! Maybe they were frightened away by Elle Woods ....
I think you are very smart to skip this. I have tried cooking in a kitchen situation like that and it was so very stressful and not so safe in my opinion. I once kept Ds home from an unsafe field trip and we just had a fun mom/son day. I hope you can, too. I'm sorry that you are in this position. I would talk to the principal about how this is not fair to your child and ask about upcoming future field trips. I would try to get him to change/nix any that would be unsafe in this way because if a field trip is important for educational reasons, it is also important for your child for educational reasons as well and they should try to think of other ways to meet those educational goals.
Thanks, lakeswimr. I am going to keep talking to them about the wisdom of having the PTO involved in the curriculum like this, and in the difficulty created by having these cooking activities on field trips. There really is no reason they need to do this, they just "always have".
We have an event coming up this year that they have 'always had'. DS doesn't care. I kind of do. I kind of want to ask them how they are going to include DS. They can't if they do it they way they always have. And the person in charge is a POFAK who has a very lose comfort zone (one I think is not safe and that most/all here would also think is not safe.) But thankfully that is the only even this year. The older DS gets thankfully the less he cares. I also discovered trump foods that I can give him and he could care less what he isn't getting when he has them.
Still, it would be nice if people would fully include students who can be fully included.
ITA about PTO. PTO should not be setting curriculum. You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents.
ITA about PTO. PTO should not be setting curriculum. You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents.
AMEN.
ITA, too.
I tended toward the subversive with this kind of thing when DD was younger-- so we would do something that would NEVER be covered in school because it would be too controversial, expensive, difficult, etc. USUALLY with a pointed social justice twist thrown in for good measure.
Then my DD would get to talk about that instead of whatever lame-o thing that the CQ's had dreamed up. HA.
^What she said. Win-win.
Quote from: CMdeux on October 18, 2013, 01:50:37 PM
ITA about PTO. PTO should not be setting curriculum. You should not have to negotiate safety with other parents.
AMEN.
ITA, too.
I tended toward the subversive with this kind of thing when DD was younger-- so we would do something that would NEVER be covered in school because it would be too controversial, expensive, difficult, etc. USUALLY with a pointed social justice twist thrown in for good measure.
Then my DD would get to talk about that instead of whatever lame-o thing that the CQ's had dreamed up. HA.
yes! :yes:
Ah yes, subversive is good! And while the PTO may have won the battle, they aren't going to win the war. The 504 team has indicated they will make next year's event food-free. Doesn't help my kid this year, but we're blazing the trail, I suppose. ;)
Quote from: eggallergymom on October 24, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Ah yes, subversive is good! And while the PTO may have won the battle, they aren't going to win the war. The 504 team has indicated they will make next year's event food-free. Doesn't help my kid this year, but we're blazing the trail, I suppose. ;)
Great news!
This is fantastic. :)