Vasovagal Response or Low BP and Epi?

[Macabre]

I'm going to suggest a glass of wine to MaryM. 


Okay--not trying to derail--and certainly I don't want to cause any heartache for you MaryM.  This day was traumatic enough.  I can't imagine. 

But given a definite allergen exposure, if I experienced low blood pressure (and I'm saying this because I do experience some stuff like this and wonder the best treatment), I would say it was an epi moment.  Anaphylaxis can also self-resolve.  Not that we would count on it. 

I get spaciness as a first symptom often, and I've assumed it was low blood pressure causing it, but I don't know that it is.  Typically it clears up if I move to another area (if it's an airborne exposure) or take a benadryl.  But I haven't felt anything that dramatic.  If I did, and I knew I had exposure, I would most certainly epi. 

How would you know not to?

[GoingNuts]

I guess the short answer is outside of a medical facility without expert observation, you would.

I had this happen after allergy shots.  My allergist epi'd me immediately, and kept me there for about an hour and a half.  Then turned me loose to drive home. (Probably not the best idea - not that I had any realistic alternative.)

[MaryM]

If we weren't at Mt. Sinai I would have used the Epi for sure.  And even after yesterday I would use it if I was not at a medical facility bc you don't know.  We were there for hours after the incident.  DD was fine a few minutes later, sucking on a lollipop telling me everything was ok.

[YouKnowWho]

I am at the point when it comes to hives with DS2 that I will not medicate with Benadryl (our allergist has given his blessing on using antihistamines as a first response).  He has such over the top reactions to medications as in the extreme end of side effects that he borders on comatose shortly after taking Bendaryl.  Not fun when you are trying to determine whether or not this is part of the reaction or only as a result of the med.

The downside is that he is my child that hives at the drop of a hat.  It is why I am pushing DH to pay for the UKnow test next year and hopefully challenge.  I need to know which is which.

I have often tested my blood pressure during the "bloom" when my EA's go nuts.  I cannot tell you how many times I have been so spacey during a reaction that it made me wonder if I was having an ana rxn.  MIL knows the drill when she sees the cuff come out - shoot me in the leg if the number is below a certain level.

[lakeswimr]

Sounds like an epi moment to me.  I wasn't there so maybe I am not getting the full picture but known allergens ingestion and almost passing out and stomach pain = allergic reaction.  I don't get the allergist saying it wasn't an allergic reaction but also calling it a fail? 

[CMdeux]

Lakeswimr, I know that our allergist has relied upon a BP cuff and a positional shift to determine what is possible orthostatic hypotension versus a possible reaction.

vasovagal responses are like a light switch in terms of on/off.  There's very little in the way of onset-- and almost no aftereffect at all, either. 

All I can say is what I know from going through DD's reaction with LOC with him-- after the fact, it was clear to all of us that it was not a VVR/orthostatic hypotension, because recovery wasn't that fast.

[yelloww]

I have dealt with vaso all my life and it doesn't have anything to do with food for me. The most important thing about it is to get horizontal as fast as you can because it then forces your Bp to even back out faster than when you are upright. I go through spurts w/it. Sometimes I will go3-4 years without having any episodes, the boom, I will have 3-4 episodes in one year.

There was a time when ds was little where it was happening every month when I had my period.  But once I got my normally low Bp a bit more regulated, then things got better. Last time I fainted from one was a few years ago, but it nearly happened a few weeks ago. I can tell when it's coming and I just get on the  floor ASAP and it usually stops me from completely blacking out- that is also helpful in avoiding a head injury.

Mary, just keep an eye out over the next little bit as once you have one vaso response, it seems easier to have others for very little rhyme or reason. That's also why I posted the wiki info yesterday about it. Obviously if there's another one it won't be food related. I would have Epi'd yesterday if I wasn't at the dr's too. 

[MaryM]

Thanks CM for explaining and yellow for the info.   I'll be sure to let her teacher and the nurse know too.  Once she was horizontal she perked right up.  The nurse was ready with Epi but everything stabilized as soon as she was in the recliner.  I trust the allergist and when  she called to check on us I told her that I'd give Epi if it happened at home and she said better safe than sorry.   DD has a well check up soon too, so I will discuss with the pediatrician.

[yelloww]

Not to scare you, but if she passes out and is vertical, there's a chance for seizures as she comes to. I fainted at my desk once at work (and worked in a solitary spot so no one saw it) and when I came to, my whole body was shaking. I was vertical. I'm assuming it was a seizure, but I felt ok after and never had it happen before or since. And since I had fainted plenty before then, I just took half a day and went home to nap. I don't recommend my choices as an adult as sage medical advice. Just telling you what I've experienced.

[spoiler]This stuff used to scare the crap out of my parents when I was little! My first Christmas memory involves me fainting Xmas morning. I was either 3 or 4, I remember being rushed to the ER and my parents freaking out. And I vividly remember (of all things and this is way too much TMI- the rectal thermometer!!!  )   They thought I was dying because I was fine and then boom, I collapsed. My dad told me, as an adult, that it was the scariest moment in his life. I know I was really little because when I was 5 and in Kindy and fainted in the lunch line, my mom flipped out because they thought I was faking and she went ballistic. I smashed my head into a wall that time. Now the worst ones involve the bathroom and trying not to crack my head on the sink. I'm unfortunately well versed in this. It's my only odd medical condition.[/spoiler]

Horizontal is important, just like when you'd want someone flat to use an Epi.

[MaryM]

Thank you for all the information yellow!  It was one of the scariest moments of my life.  By far the worst moment in my life as a parent.  I caught her before she hit a sink with her chin but I more than made up for that when I tripped and we both fell.

[Macabre]

I fainted in the lunch line in sixth grade yellow!  And only two other times. Once my dad and I were making beef stew and I was cutting the meat. My dad, who had a dry sense of humor, was behind me and started talking about the cow. He was saying, "Just think if the cute eyes, long eyelashes" and stuff like that. I told him to stop, that I felt faint. He kept at it. I did have the presence of mind to set the chef's knife down before I actually fainted and dropped to the floor.

The day my nephew was born when they were putting the Vitamin E ? Ointment on his eyes I fainted in front if the nursery window at the hospital. Oh yeah--also once during a choir concert in 9th grade.

Fortunately it hasn't been much of a problem.

[Macabre]

MaryM if you caught her before she did that it sounds like you saved her from the worse fall. She could have damaged her mouth--and teeth. Even adult teeth. I have a coworker whose 8 yo dd fell on her teeth basically. She lost all of her upper front teeth and had to get implants. That is a very long, painful and expensive process for that many teeth with bone grafts required.

I am sorry you all fell, but I'm so glad you saved her from a potentially worse one.

Glass of wine tonight? 

[MaryM]

Just had a nice glass of Cabernet/Shiraz.  Contemplating another . I also took a nap which I never do.  Poor DH is exhausted and swamped at work.
I sent DD's teacher an email. Hopefully she can spare a few minutes before school starts tomorrow.
The snowstorm was a big dud but I'm so glad the kids had off.  I probably would have kept them both home if school was open.

[Janelle205]

Like yellow, I've had problems with this as well, though it was more frequent when I was younger.  I still tend to have issues when I have blood drawn, and it annoys me to no end because there is pretty much nothing that I can do about it.  Other than blood draws, I only have issues very occasionally.  Luckily, I usually have a few seconds warning and can lay down first - my ears start ringing really loudly and I get black dots in my vision.  For me, at least, my allergic reaction symptoms have been different, luckily.

[GoingNuts]

Count me among the fainters - when I was. Younger. Low blood pressure and all that.

IPad isn't cooperating tonite. More tomorrow.